Duskblade, arcane channelling

[Sithobi1]

By using iterative attacks...

 

[Caliban]

Heh, a friend of mine made the same mistake regarding their spells per day If you actually count, they are within one or two either way of a wizard (non-specialist) at any given level. You just see the big number 10 there on the table and naturally say "wow, that's a lot!" But since they only have 5 spell levels, it's really not.

Far more than any other Full BAB class that also get's spells. And they get a full caster level.

I really like the class, but it seems a bit too good. Why would anyone play a hexblade with this in the game?

 

[EyeontheMountain]

I really like the class, but it seems a bit too good. Why would anyone play a hexblade with this in the game?

A better question would be if anyone would have played a hexblade before, even without Dusk.

And for me the answer is no. Hexblades were not a well-thought out class, they have far too many limits. Teh duskblade, might be too powerful, but it is a real fighter/wizard, unlikethe hexblade, which was an inferior class.

 

[Votan]

Far more than any other Full BAB class that also get's spells. And they get a full caster level.

I really like the class, but it seems a bit too good. Why would anyone play a hexblade with this in the game?

I think the balance of the class should be looked at relative tot he original 11 classes. Otherwise, a mistakenly good or bad additional class in an optional sourcebook could make a whole family of character archetypes suboptimal.

I think the Duskblade is clearly weaker than a cleric. At low levels (before 5) I woudl defionitely take a Barbarian in preference but not by a lot). A medium levels it has a unique fighting tactic that synergizes remarkably well with what other melee characters do.

No, I think that I like it so far.

My maihor objection is the INT for spontaneous casting not because I dislike the idea but because it breaks a huge precedent in terms of classes (Sorcerer, Bard, Spirit Shaman, Favored Soul, Dread Necromancer, Spellthief. Hexblade, Warmage and even the Warlock) have CHA as part of their spellcasting entirely because they are spontaneous casters. SOme of these woudl have benefited greatly at a mechanical level from having INT as a casting statistics (Spelltheif comes immediately to mind).

So much as a core Fighter/Magic-user class was desperately needed, this is late int ehd evelopment of the game to change this design principle and it reflects backwards at amny other classes making one ask: Why CHA?

 

[Caliban]

A better question would be if anyone would have played a hexblade before, even without Dusk.

I know at least 3 people who have, and I've used them as NPC's in my home game.

And for me the answer is no. Hexblades were not a well-thought out class, they have far too many limits. Teh duskblade, might be too powerful, but it is a real fighter/wizard, unlikethe hexblade, which was an inferior class.

I agree that the Hexblade needs a bit more oomph, but the duskblade just feels like too much in the other direction, at least on paper.

I'll have to actually play one, or have one in my home game, before I make a final decision though.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Far more than any other Full BAB class that also get's spells. And they get a full caster level.

I really like the class, but it seems a bit too good. Why would anyone play a hexblade with this in the game?

The question is even before this class why would anyone want to be a hexblade? Hexblades are not fighter/wizards as everyone seems to think they are.

They are instead an unique class whose theme is "making other people weaker". Who happen to get some weapon skills as well. Unforunately, the extent of their special abilities is that even at 20th level they can't make any enemy weak enough to matter.

The only time we had someone play a hexblade, he attempted to use his hex abilities and spells, but most enemies made their saves. Even if they didn't, though, he'd give them a couple of minuses to hit and they'd die the next turn to the raging barbarian who was power attacking, making the minuses useless anyways.

So far we have had a duskblade in our party for one session, I allowed him to use his touch spell ability against the same target multiple times and he did do a lot of damage, but it was about the same as the couple other powergamed fighter types in the group.

If I was to rate the power level of all the base classes from all of the WOTC books so far, Hexblade would be at or near the bottom.

 

[Particle_Man]

My maihor objection is the INT for spontaneous casting not because I dislike the idea but because it breaks a huge precedent in terms of classes (Sorcerer, Bard, Spirit Shaman, Favored Soul, Dread Necromancer, Spellthief. Hexblade, Warmage and even the Warlock) have CHA as part of their spellcasting entirely because they are spontaneous casters.

Note: Assassin, from DMG, also uses INT to spontaneously cast.

 

[MarkB]

Is it just me, or will the 13th level version of arcane channeling be an especially potent combo with an Improved Trip / Spiked Chain wielder, especially with Enlarge Person?

Delivering a single melee touch spell against multiple opponents with fighter-BAB iterative touch attacks, and tripping them, and then getting to hit anyone tripped for normal damage. And that against anyone within 20 feet. That's got to be a serious battlefield-control combination.

And here's another question: Bull's Strength is a touch-range spell. Could a 13th-level Duskblade make a full round attack sequence, delivering Trip attacks against his allies and deliberately failing the opposed checks, in order to cast Bull's Strength on one ally for each iterative attack he has? Or does the clause about the spell discharging at the end of the round also apply to its ongoing effects upon its targets?

 

[Question]

What is iterative touch attacks?

 

[Particle_Man]

I think he means that to try to trip someone you make a touch attack (followed by the opposed strength vs. strength or dex). If you fail on your first attempt, you can use you other iterative attacks to try to touch attack again (and then the opposed roll to trip again).

Iterative just means that for any character with BAB over 5, you get a secondary attack at -5 TH, and maybe other attacks at -10 TH and -15 TH (assuming a BAB over 10 and over 15, respectively). Since Duskblades have the fighter BAB progression, they get their iterative attacks nice and early so a 13th level duskblade gets 3 attacks per round. If the duskblade is trying to trip someone, these will be touch attacks (until the Duskblade succeeds in a trip, in which case further attacks would be regular iterative attacks).

Edit: I don't know if the touch attack used in a trip could also be the attack that channels a spell, but I don't see why not. After all, if it were a spell being simply cast, it would be a touch spell.