Dwarves make as good/better primal characters than elves.

[Danceofmasks]

Hey!

Dex 20 Wis 16 Elf Ranger is still one of the best god tier builds there is.

 

[bganon]

Everything makes a better X than elves. Elves and Half-elves are non-optimum for EVERY single build in the entire game, bar none.

Really? What race makes a better archer ranger than Elves? Razorclaws maybe? I'm asking because I honestly don't know. I think speed 7, Wild Step, and Elven Accuracy are a pretty big deal for that build.

And half-elves are sorta non-optimum on purpose, I think. Although they make decent Con-Cha Starlocks, that build's probably a bit of a trap.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Half-Elf valorous bard is quite good, though I think Humans are actually better.

 

[Bolongo]

Everything makes a better X than elves. Elves and Half-elves are non-optimum for EVERY single build in the entire game, bar none. So what's new? Basically between Dragonborn and Half-orc you can be the optimum race for the VAST majority of all builds.

Well, if you're going strictly by "must have racial bonus to both primary and secondary stat", elves still make the best Predator Druids and Pursuit Avengers (tied with Razorclaws on the stats, but I would take elven accuracy over razorclaw shifting any day).

And as others have pointed out, any Dex-primary build that has a use for Wis-based skills has a spot for the elf. Or for that matter any Wis-primary that wants decent Ref/AC in light armor.

If you want limited options, take a look at the poor eladrin: great Wand Wizards, and, uh... not much else.

 

[Silverwave]

Elf druid IS good.

Who said druid needs Wis, Dex AND Con ? Usually, you only need the first stat, and one of the two.

I made an elven druid based on Wis and Dex with primal predator, and the character is totally on the curve.

 

[chaotix42]

Half-elves seem to make great Chaladins nowadays too.

 

[Herschel]

Hey!

Dex 20 Wis 16 Elf Ranger is still one of the best god tier builds there is.

Reverse that for an Avenger also.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Really? What race makes a better archer ranger than Elves? Razorclaws maybe? I'm asking because I honestly don't know. I think speed 7, Wild Step, and Elven Accuracy are a pretty big deal for that build.

And half-elves are sorta non-optimum on purpose, I think. Although they make decent Con-Cha Starlocks, that build's probably a bit of a trap.

I think elves make pretty decent Archer Rangers, but they aren't better than half-orcs or shifters. I would consider STR to be pretty key for any martial class. WIS is certainly useful to an Archer, but not decisive. There are ways to build one that work well with either race. Razorclaw Shifters are also definitely on a par with elves as Archer Rangers.

The half-elf situation though really is pretty sad. They are a good scourge warlock, and stat-wise a good Dragon Sorcerer, but in neither case are they the best possible choice. It is hard to systematically assess how much dilettante helps, but given that it is handing you a weak encounter level power it generally isn't tipping the scales vs higher starting stats.

Remember the treadmill. If your primary (and in many builds secondary) stats aren't started at max and kept their for all 30 levels you are suffering an effective -1 to-hit, which is pretty much the nastiest penalty you can get. Do a thought experiment. Take your elf, dwarf, or half-elf and consider if it would be a good trade to get +1 to-hit across the board vs your racial powers (not the ability or skill benefits, everyone gets some of those). In most cases it would be better to have the +1. Then consider that if you were a race that DID have the right stat mix (the effective +1) you STILL have whatever racial powers that race gives you. They may be less good for the build than what you do have, but remember that they effectively are like a free gift!

Like I said before, charop is not a blanket argument to say that races are "bad" for certain builds, it just says they are non-optimal, and when a race is ALWAYS non-optimal I think it is kind of a bummer. And I still want to know what WotC has against classic races? They are ALL uniformly non-optimal with only 2 marginal exceptions.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

If you want limited options, take a look at the poor eladrin: great Wand Wizards, and, uh... not much else.

At least its a good fluff match.

 

[Akaiku]

Half-elves seem to make great Chaladins nowadays too.

Get eyebite from dilettante and at 11th level, eyebite the DC'd guy every round. Hilarity ensues.