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E6: The Game Inside D&D

I actually would re-boot the thread again, maybe in a different subforum.

But I'd want to do a rewrite of the E6 .pdf first, and before I could do that I'd want to be sure that I could get good layout for it.
What kind of layout do you need? Are you talking about something bigger than the 20 pages at the front of thread?
 

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Ry

Explorer
I actually have talked to Jason Dettman who did the layout on the first one. I'm planning on doing a rewrite of that pdf somewhere in the next few months.
 

I actually have talked to Jason Dettman who did the layout on the first one. I'm planning on doing a rewrite of that pdf somewhere in the next few months.

Are you aware of the OGL problems with the 0.4.1 PDF?
* It references Kord on page 5. I'm not aware of an OGC version of Aspect of Kord
* It refers directly to Unearthed Arcana in the FAQ. I'm pretty sure that is a trademarked name. And making reference to compatibility with a trademarked name is forbidden.
* The FAQ also references the point buy rules in the DMG. They are not OGC either.
 


Ry

Explorer
Oh, also, all this copyright stuff reminded me that it was time to release the new E6 Compatibility Logo!

The Compatibility Logo will be available to all potential publishers so they can indicate that they take E6 and copyright issues very seriously.

Here it is!

E6-inside.png
 

Oh, also, all this copyright stuff reminded me that it was time to release the new E6 Compatibility Logo!
Can I assume (correctly) from this that the new version of E6 will be a "complete" RPG with pages about classes and races and skills and combat and ... I'm betting you can keep char gen minus feats to 32 pages easily. Magic could easily be under 32 pages. The hard part would be reducing combat and skills since E6 leaves them unmodified.
 

joela

First Post
Can I assume (correctly) from this that the new version of E6 will be a "complete" RPG with pages about classes and races and skills and combat and ... I'm betting you can keep char gen minus feats to 32 pages easily. Magic could easily be under 32 pages. The hard part would be reducing combat and skills since E6 leaves them unmodified.

Don't forget magic items, traps, poisons, and -- of course -- monsters! to make the "complete" rpg.
 

Just as a general note...

There has been on-going work to modify the SRD to be "E6" compliant. I haven't followed it especially because I set my cap higher, so it's of no real use to me. You can find it here:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-le...tem-reference-document-community-project.html

The last post to the thread (#281) has a zip of the files that they did work on; it should provide a solid foundation for what people are after, once you've doublechecked the assumptions/decisions made by the folks in the first place.
 

Don't forget magic items, traps, poisons, and -- of course -- monsters! to make the "complete" rpg.

I'm always fascinated by the "how small can an RPG go" threads. With teeny fonts I've gotten some big SRD sections down to very few pages. Someone mentioned the $2.99 per component idea here and I was intrigued again.
 

kevin_video

Explorer
I've mentioned this before, but during my E6 game, I've allowed certain Epic feats to be taken as capstone feats. Mostly because they don't great the game at all. For example, Combat Archery, which allows someone to fire a bow without provoking an AoO. The ranger/sorcerer/wizard 1 spell Arrow Mind does that as a swift action for a number of minutes, and there are feats that either add to your AC vs AoO with a bow, or don't provoke an AoO if it's an exotic ranged weapon. So it only makes sense to do that.

While going through the feats, I came up with a capstone feat of my own. It's a variant on an epic feat.

Energy Resistance [Capstone]

Benefit
Choose a type of energy (acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic). You gain resistance 2 to that type of energy, or your existing resistance to that type of energy increases by one category: 2, 5, 10, 20. This feat does not stack with energy resistance granted by magic items or nonpermanent magical effects.

You can gain this feat multiple times.
 

Hip Uncle Z

First Post
Been running a steampunk world for about 3 years now. Switched to PFRPG 2 years ago; and after reading the e6 document; really want to give this a shot.

I have a few questions.

1.) I didn't see HP mentioned once, so I assume that it stops increasing as well.

-How does playing without increasing Hitpoints *feel* to you players?

-What about you DMs?

2.) Is it a much higher casualty rate when you hit CR10 encounters?

3.) Can anyone recommend some expanded spell selections to use specifically with e6? I already have everything from Rite Publishing and Necromancers of The Northwest.
 

kevin_video

Explorer
It's not like you don't ever get more hit points. You just get more feats that you can use to increase your Con modifier and Toughness. That's definitely going to help. But no, no more HD.

If you're facing a CR 10 encounter then you've got "epic" characters with like 15 extra feats before they're going in so they're the equivalent to an 8th or 9th level party. Yeah the damage is higher, but the survivability is still there. Like they said in the write up, this makes dragons fearsome again. Makes the PCs think outside the box.

You could always give mages capstone feats that allow them to learn a 4th level spell. I know a DM that did that for his E6 group. It was basically the same as the epic feat Improved Spell Capacity.
 

Antariuk

First Post
1.) I didn't see HP mentioned once, so I assume that it stops increasing as well.

-How does playing without increasing Hitpoints *feel* to you players?

-What about you DMs?

Like kevin_video said, there is always the Toughnes feat, giving any 6th level character 6 hp. If you still have a bad feeling about this, E8 might be an alternative for your game.

As for the feeling, I can only speak from a GM's perspective. First, its a weird thing, and you need to get used to the fact that a large portion of the Bestiaiy can kill your players easily. But after it sinks in, you realize how much this can improve the game. After one or two tough fights, your players will realize that they can't affort to charge into any dungeon they find like brainless maniacs. They need a solid strategy, they need preparation, and above all, caution. They will start to take the world around them more serious. If your players are anything like mine, they might also surprise your with a display of cunning and cruelty you never saw before. Survival can be a strong motivator :)

This doesn't mean that I am f***ing around with my players or constantly putting them in danger of being killed. I run a fair game, where there are always several ways to approach a problem. I just made it clear that I won't cheat, and that there might be villains they cannot beat without preparing accordingly for the job.

2.) Is it a much higher casualty rate when you hit CR10 encounters?

I'd say that really depends on your player's knowledge of the rules, and how their characters are built. If they are accustomed to "normal" Pathfinder games, it may cost them a character or two before they attune to E6's reality. Do the character complement each other during combat? Are all players aware of the fact that the game works outside the standard mechanics for level-appropriate encounters, and therefore running also is an option to end a fight?

3.) Can anyone recommend some expanded spell selections to use specifically with e6? I already have everything from Rite Publishing and Necromancers of The Northwest.

I'm familiar with one or two Rite Publishing materials, their 101 spells series might be all you ever need. Personally, I am using an assortment of extra spells from the D&D 3.5 Complete series, Eberron supplements (we are playing an Eberron game), and some spells from various d20 supplements I found interesting. However, be careful with the amount of extra spells in the game, as you might end up creating some of the very problems E6 tried to avoid in the first place.
 

Hip Uncle Z

First Post
However, be careful with the amount of extra spells in the game, as you might end up creating some of the very problems E6 tried to avoid in the first place.

Yes! I thought about this while reading the PDF last night then said "Hell, the 101 spells are enough".

I will throw some technology school spells in, as this is a Steampunk game. But my gamers all seem excited to enter a tough as nails game; that feels more real and severe than what they're used to. My gamers have told me they come for the story, but maybe now they'll appreciate the combat better!
 


Antariuk

First Post
My gamers have told me they come for the story, but maybe now they'll appreciate the combat better!

The way I see it, this is a huge accomplishment! D&D or Pathfinder are not the best storytelling systems to begin with, so if your players already see the story as a primary incentive, you're doing just fine :)
 

LordUrban

First Post
I was wondering if anyone had worked on including prestige classes in E6? For the most part I've found that you need to hit 7 before you can think about taking one. Are there any feats that would allow for the reproduction of prestige classes?
 

Gilladian

Adventurer
I've been running an E6 game now for just about a year and a half... and my PCs are just now about to become 5th and 6th level (2 at 5th and 2 at 6th). So we're just really "seeing" the differences that E6 will make in the overall campaign.

I have noticed that as I run the dungeon (Dragon's Delve over at dungeonaday.com) I am beginning to see a real difference in the way things are working. I'm having to modify the foes they meet into E6 versions; the NPCs are all 6-8th level now (the evil Venom Cult of clerics and assassins in the lvl 6 area of the dungeon) and would be starting to use Lvl 4 spells against them.

Instead, I'm giving them more feats, and adding a few extra lower-level "cannon-fodder" foes to give the "bigger" foes a cushion, so they're not mobbed at once.

Already, the rule change has affected the way I run my campaign world, and the concepts that effect the psyche of the NPCs. There's no raise dead unless a whole group of priests is all willing to work together to do it, so only royalty or high ranking clergy are ever LIKELY to be raised.

I HAVE been allowing spells from many sources - all the player's options books, Spell Compendium, etc... but do not have the Rite Publishing resources. Hmmm...

I think reworking prestige classes into base classes is the way I'm going. I was never one for LOTS of multiclassing, nor are my players, but sometimes they look! Again, I allow PH II classes and a few others, but they haven't tried them.

Or rework prestige classes into a SINGLE level that can be taken as the 6th level selection, optionally. A "capstone" level, as it were. Give each class say 3 options, and you can introduce a lot of variety.
 

S'mon

Legend
I've decided with my Pathfinder Beginner Box Yggsburgh campaign to make it E10 rather than E5. E10 I think fits closest to the level demographics of old-school rulesets such as 1e AD&D or B/X D&D, and allows for all the iconic D&D spells (I guess you could argue 6th level Disintegrate or Death Spell were somewhat iconic, but not like Teleport or Raise Dead). Yggsburgh is a Gygaxian setting so Wizards should be powerful; this makes it less suitable for E5 or E6 play. But I definitely don't want to be dealing with the horrors of double-digit 3e play, and I doubt PF really fixed it, so E10 seems like the best approach.
 

S'mon

Legend
[MENTION=2093]Gilladian[/MENTION] - I've already been running my Pathfinder BB Yggsburgh game since February. :) Currently with attrition the three regular PCs are 4th, 2nd & 2nd, the 4th level guy is getting close to the BB's 5th level cap, hence my deciding whether to stick with my initial E5 idea or go to E10. There will be one more game then a planned hiatus to January. When it resumes it will be at most fortnightly, with 3 hour sessions. A year from now I expect it's possible, but definitely not certain, that one or more PCs might have reached the E10 cap, in which case I will be able to report back on how E10 works in play. :) If the campaign goes long term then I expect in a couple years I will definitely have seen some E10 play, and I'll be sure to report in here around August 2014 :). My expectation is that it should run a lot like the traditional OD&D 'Endgame', with dominion rulership & politics as increasingly large features.
 

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