Easy Paladin Poll

[Ahnehnois]

Alignment is a cancer.

They've said that alignment will be easy to opt out of, which I would think means no alignment-specific classes, especially not the shining champion of lawful stupid.

 

[CleverNickName]

Alignment is a cancer.

They've said that alignment will be easy to opt out of, which I would think means no alignment-specific classes, especially not the shining champion of lawful stupid.

Alignment isn't a cancer; it is a spice. As long as we can vary the amount of it from recipe to recipe, I will have very little reason to complain about it. Right now, the paladin forces us all to accept a certain amount of spice, and I think that is where the whole "lawful stupid" complaint comes from.

Some of us like it spicy, some don't. I hope 5E accounts for that.

 

[The Red King]

Alignment is a cancer.

They've said that alignment will be easy to opt out of, which I would think means no alignment-specific classes, especially not the shining champion of lawful stupid.

Cancer? Really? I'd like to see how you really compare the 2.

Alignment isn't a cancer; it is a spice. As long as we can vary the amount of it from recipe to recipe, I will have very little reason to complain about it. Right now, the paladin forces us all to accept a certain amount of spice, and I think that is where the whole "lawful stupid" complaint comes from.

Some of us like it spicy, some don't. I hope 5E accounts for that.

That is true. you don't need it to play, but it can make for a fun game when done well.

 

[Holy Bovine]

I don't really have an issue with paladins, but nobody in my gaming group ever wants to play one. The preferred recipe for a "holy warrior" character seems to be a multiclassed fighter/cleric, and I'm not sure why.

Maybe it's the alignment restriction that turns everyone off? I dunno. I'll have to ask them this weekend.

Probably because the paladin was a weak fighter or a gimped cleric in 3E. While I haven't seen one in play the Pathfinder paladin looks miles better mechanically (and better flavoured) than any 3E-era paladin. I even saw a thread on paizo where a DM was complaining that the paladin PC was overpowered! Did anyone ever say that about 3E paladins?

I say keep paladins alignment open for any options and take those options into account when designing the class. The biggest problem with 3E era paladins (and to a lesser extent 4E) was the flavouring of powers always assumed you were LG (I know 3E did make that a requirement but still). Don't give me Smite Evil give me Smite Enemy!

 

[fuindordm]

[MENTION=8858]hafrogman[/MENTION]: You're absolutely right that base classes should support a wider scope than "mounted, virtuous, divine knight".

Personally, I see the paladin as a good class for players who want to play a hero, but don't want the complexity of a spell caster. "divine, lg warrior" is enough. It would be great if the player could choose from a menu of martial and supernatural powers.

 

[Thaumaturge]

What's interesting to me how how differently some of us see the world.

I view the LG paladin's restriction as part of the fun of playing one. When I have played paladins in the past, I've enjoyed role playing him in ethically or morally difficult situations, where the easy way and the right way are at loggerheads. I don't think I've 'ruined' any tables, and I'm still gaming with many of the same people I was over a decade ago.

I get that's it isn't for everyone, for sure. Still, a warrior with deadly skill who must act according to the strictures of his code, so he cannot resort to the easy path when it suits him? Yes, please.

Thaumaturge.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

My biggest objection is the name "paladin." I'm not opposed to other holy warriors, just as long as they're not called paladin. Unless they happen to be a gunslinger for hire.

 

[Mallus]

So, you like paladins?

Yes.

Do you see LG-only paladins as iconic, special, or a valuable feature of D&D?

No.

Or do you think paladins are just holy warriors, and there should be one per alignment or one per god?

Mostly -- I like lots of different paladins, each with their own righteous screwhead beliefs (not just LG).

 

[Ahnehnois]

Cancer? Really? I'd like to see how you really compare the 2.

[Sigh]

Well, it starts out as just a few lines in the description chapter; seems harmless. But then it mutates into something else, an insidious faux philosophy that infiltrates all aspects of design, metastasizing from classes to spells to monster subtypes. It can be caused by anything and take almost any form, so know one can really define it. You can use fancy imaging techniques to detect undesirable alignments and try to excise them with a surgical tool, such as a holy avenger, or blast them with holy energy, but these things almost invariably end up harming friendlies, raising the question of which is worse, the alignment or the cure. At the end of the day, the more alignment infiltrates your game, the more players think about it and make decisions based on it, the closer your game is to dying.

The only difference is that alignment isn't a fact of life.

 

[The Red King]

[Sigh]

Well, it starts out as just a few lines in the description chapter; seems harmless. But then it mutates into something else, an insidious faux philosophy that infiltrates all aspects of design, metastasizing from classes to spells to monster subtypes. It can be caused by anything and take almost any form, so know one can really define it. You can use fancy imaging techniques to detect undesirable alignments and try to excise them with a surgical tool, such as a holy avenger, or blast them with holy energy, but these things almost invariably end up harming friendlies, raising the question of which is worse, the alignment or the cure. At the end of the day, the more alignment infiltrates your game, the more players think about it and make decisions based on it, the closer your game is to dying.

The only difference is that alignment isn't a fact of life.

You really need to get out more...

That was funny. I don't get the hatred for the class. I run a 3.5 campaign for 2 years now, and we have never had problems with Paladins.