Eberron-as corny as I think?

[rounser]

That is, both of these things were part of their respective settings from day one, so far as the consumer was concerned.

I don't have Blackmoor to hand, but I wouldn't be surprised if they stated where the technology came from, so that argument probably doesn't hold water.

You can say this of many campaign worlds, especially Forgotten Realms, which is loaded with high-powered magic, gods walking the earth, mortals meeting with and turning into deities, etc.

Nah, average Forgotten Realms peasant doesn't have low level spells as a commonly accessed thing. Bottom-heavy magic is worse than top-heavy magic in this instance.

 

[jdrakeh]

I wonder if the problem isn't that Eberron is re-introducing these ideas, but rather, these concepts have become pretty popular and people are feeling left out because their tired old Tolkein hacks just aren't cutting the mustard anymore.

I don't like the term "tired old Tolkien hacks" very much because I still play a lot of FR, Arduin, and Greyhawk, but I suspect that you are right about resentment of this nature playing a role in the active dislike that some harbor for Eberron.

I mean, hell, there are entire communities of bitter AD&D1e fans who hate D&D 3x for no reason other than that it is currently more popular and better supported than their D&D edition of choice. I suspect that the same can be said of popular settings.

 

[jdrakeh]

I don't have Blackmoor to hand, but I wouldn't be surprised if they stated where the technology came from, so that argument probably doesn't hold water.

It briefly mentions where the tech came from, but that doesn't invalidate the argument in any way. Space ships and super-science rayguns are fantasy because they came from outer space, but industrialized natural magic isn't? If anything, that is the argument that doesn't hold any water.

 

[Aaron L]

It isnt my ideal setting, but I think its pretty cool and Id be happy to play in it.


Far too many people act like it killed thier puppy and took away thier right to only play Tolkien/Conan ripoffs.

 

[rounser]

It briefly mentions where the tech came from, but that doesn't invalidate the argument in any way.

Sure it does. It's suggesting that the technology is actually alien to Blackmoor, and therefore not a "natural" part of the setting, probably even just a novelty...

Space ships and super-science rayguns are fantasy because they came from outer space, but industrialized natural magic isn't? If anything, that is the argument that doesn't hold any water.

Not what I'm arguing. Industrial magic is a fundamental part of the Eberron setting, as opposed to a sideshow novelty which the setting touches upon as in the case of Blackmoor (which is proved by the fact that the new release of Blackmoor doesn't even include it).

 

[jdrakeh]

Not what I'm arguing.

It's exactly what you're arguing.

Industrial magic is a fundamental part of the Eberron setting, as opposed to a sideshow novelty which the setting touches upon as in the case of Blackmoor

Tech in the original Blackmoor wasn't a sideshow anything - it was commonplace, as evidenced by a reading of that work. It was a staple of the setting, not some weird optional rule - it was, largely what differentiated Blackmoor from Greyhawk at that point in time.

(which is proved by the fact that the new release of Blackmoor doesn't even include it).

That doesn't prove anything other than that tech doesn't eixst in the recent revision of Blackmoor. The new Blackmoor is a different product that is quite a bit different than the OD&D Blackmoor in some of its assumptions.

 

[jdrakeh]

Sure it does. It's suggesting that the technology is actually alien to Blackmoor, and therefore not a "natural" part of the setting, probably even just a novelty...

The ship crashed in the planet's pre-history - by the time of the adventure in the supplement, high technology is rather commonplace and no less natural than airplanes are on planet Earth. That is, it was an engrained part of the setting and several of its cultures.

Where this tech came from very obviously qualifies it (and Blackmoor) as Science Fiction according to the criteria that you're using to damn Eberron, but you're exempting it (or, possibly, all things old school) from criticism simply because you like them.

 

[jokamachi]

And so do I when I run Eberron!

Just because your personal definition of D&D fantasy doesn't encompass those elements, doesn't mean that that isn't D&D! Countless examples have been given of the pedigree of certain ideas within the D&D game, and of the scope of the fantasy genre.

Basically bud, don't you dare come here and try and tell me what my D&D ought to be!

Bah. I'll dare to do whatever I want, and I'll diss Eberron in whatever way I want. Face it, the setting is a sad mish-mash of every pulp, sci-fi, and fantasy story Keith Baker ever read, all thrown together in the most haphazard way imaginable.

Not much restraint there. Not much ingenuity, either.

It's a crappy setting, plain and simple.

 

[Storm Raven]

Bah. I'll dare to do whatever I want, and I'll diss Eberron in whatever way I want. Face it, the setting is a sad mish-mash of every pulp, sci-fi, and fantasy story Keith Baker ever read, all thrown together in the most haphazard way imaginable.

Other than the perjorative of "sad" you threw in to your description, you have pretty much described the development of D&D itself. Look at the list of books that inspired D&D in the 1e DMG. Look at the stories Gygax has told about the early adventures he ran his groups through. Heck, look at the 1e DMG suggestions for adventure settings and ideas. At its corre, and at its roots, D&D is, and always has been, a mish-mash of pulp science fiction and fantasy stories. Pretending otherwise is just being willfully ignorant.

 

[Pants]

It's a crappy setting, plain and simple.

No it's not