Eberron inconsistencies

[Spatula]

Paladins & Evil Clerics: This makes no sense. What I think you're failing to realize is that, unlike real-world religions, D&D isn't about evil as someone being good but overcome by temptation. In D&D evil is not just someone's sins building up, or a series of choices.

So there are no fallen paladins in D&D?

Alignment as some cosmic force doesn't really fly in Eberron, IMO. Or in any game that I've ever played in. Evil characters are evil because they're willing to hurt others to get what they want. They generally don't (cultists excluded) choose to align themselves with "cosmic evil."

A Paladin's ability to sense evil is meant to detect creatures of evil and slay them. Paladins are evil-killing machines. To doubt a paladin, a real paladin who you can presumably test as a paladin (lay on hands, alignment spells of your own, get them to hold and use a Holy Avenger sword, etc.), isn't the same thing as doubting a polygraph. You might as well doubt a magnet for finding iron!

All of those methods can be fooled, even the Holy Avenger. Detect spells can be fooled. Zone of truth and discern lies can be fooled. Every magic trump card can be trumped itself, or is simply unreliable (i.e. anything that allows a saving throw).

But more than that, being "evil" is not in itself grounds for execution in a civil society. There are all kinds of compromises that are necessary to wield power, and the authorities may not appreciate when some zealot kills one of their political allies. Or kills one of their wealthy benefactors. Or slays the head of the local criminal underworld, who had cooperated with the authorities to keep crime at an acceptable level. Or murders a respected businessman, with no proof of any actual wrongdoing. And that's assuming that the people at the top are not evil themselves... It's fine to say, "I'm a paladin! The gods speak through me, and that person deserved to be cut down in cold blood," but it's not necessarily going to save you from the dungeon or a noose for pissing off the wrong people.

As a side note, I am glad most of the alignment nonsense is gone from 4e.

100% agreement here.

 

[Aaron]

With the divisions and arguments that exist in these highly specialized fields (because life is inconsistant), expecting not to run across inconsistancies in a campaign setting is a bit absurd.

Actually, since I expect to run across many inconsistencies, I asked for them before starting my campaign.

I don't think anyone will be able to solve all of them. Nor I think will be able to heal every known disease in this century. But I think we should try to solve/heal as much of them as we can.

On top of that, a lack of an explanation is not an inconsistancy. An inconsistancy is two conflicting explanations. At best it is an oxymoron, at worst it is a paradox. Lacking an explanation is an opportunity for a dungeon master (or even players) to insert his own ideas into the campaign.

I never talked about "lack of explanation".

As for the "inconsistencies" meaning, English is not my first language, so I've used the Webster dictionary online, and there I have found that the term "inconsistent" also means "incoherent or illogical in thought or actions".

And that's exactly what I meant when I asked for inconsistencies.

You're creative. Make something up.

I think the EnWorld crew can be a valuable support for DMs trying to do what you are suggesting. But thanks.

 

[ValhallaGH]

As for the "inconsistencies" meaning, English is not my first language, so I've used the Webster dictionary online, and there I have found that the term "inconsistent" also means "incoherent or illogical in thought or actions".

And that's exactly what I meant when I asked for inconsistencies.

So, are you more comfortable with the setting now? Do you feel like you've found, or been informed of, most of the inconsistencies unique to Eberron?

Honestly, I haven't seen all that many in the setting, nor in this thread. There are a number of unexplained things in the setting, but not many inconsistencies (that aren't in all of D&D). But I'll take another look through my books and get back to you with any I do find.

 

[Aaron]

So, are you more comfortable with the setting now? Do you feel like you've found, or been informed of, most of the inconsistencies unique to Eberron?

It's a work in progress. We are still discussing here.
I'm not in a hurry.

Honestly, I haven't seen all that many in the setting, nor in this thread. There are a number of unexplained things in the setting, but not many inconsistencies (that aren't in all of D&D). But I'll take another look through my books and get back to you with any I do find.

Thanks.

 

[DEFCON 1]

In reference to the "high level spellcasting" that was brought up earlier in the thread (i.e. supposedly high-level spells that seem available despite the idea that there shouldn't be enough high-level casters in Eberron to actually cast them)... this is where the concept of the schema is in play within the setting.

I don't remember exactly where the concepts of schema are full described (although they are talked about even within the introductory module in the 3E Eberron Campaign Setting), but the items are basically "directions" on how to make/cast high-level magic without needing to be a high-level caster. Thus most of the really over-the-top magical items (stuff like the Lightning Rail, airships, warforged) that would seem to need many casters with access to at the very least 7th-9th level spells... are not actually needed because using/following a schema lets you handwave away the specific spells you'd probably need to use otherwise. So long as you have a complete schema and some magical ability... casting/creating these "big" magical items or effects becomes more story-driven rather than game mechanics-driven.

 

[WayneLigon]

1) House Orien, that has been around for hundreds of years, offers expensive magical trains, but doesn't have a teleportation circle network between the major Metropolis and Cities; I don't get it.

See below.

2) Eberron is supposed to be a low level type campaign. We read that "in a world where the average soldier is a 2nd-level warrior, a 5th-level fighter can be an important individual. This is the case in Eberron."

Answer to #1: There aren't very many people at all who have the level to cast such magics. Like, maybe, 2-3 who are not PC's. The ones who might be that high a level probably have better things than making money on their minds.

Such a network would have been one of the first targets in the Last War, too, and now there's no-one that can replace it. For the same reason they haven't replaced that bridge across the isthmus between Aundaire and whatever.

The same goes for the myriad of PrCs scattered in the Eberron books: they usually require a character of at least 5th level. How many of them can I assume existent at the moment?

Most people aren't ever going to qualify for them, or have - at best - 1-2 levels in a PrC. Those would be mainly for PC's and maybe a dozen high-level NPCs. That how I usually ran it.

 

[Elephant]

I don't know - why can't you?

Just as a for-instance, the leadership of the Blood of Vol church are thoroughly evil - and yet, the religion is well-established in Karrnath, and many practitioners outside the 'inner circle' - those who buy into its public face - may consider it a good religion. It's entirely possible that many of the lower-level clerics of the Blood of Vol are good-aligned.

I could very much see a Paladin of the Blood making a career in Eberron. Every time you shed the blood of the wicked, you're that much closer to divinity!

... hey, that's where the scan-and-smite paladins come from! The Blood of Vol, not the Silver Flame!

 

[Neonchameleon]

I don't know - why can't you?

Just as a for-instance, the leadership of the Blood of Vol church are thoroughly evil - and yet, the religion is well-established in Karrnath, and many practitioners outside the 'inner circle' - those who buy into its public face - may consider it a good religion. It's entirely possible that many of the lower-level clerics of the Blood of Vol are good-aligned.

In 4e one of the character concepts I've had on the back burner for a long time is an Atheist Paladin of the Blood of Vol, causing utter consternation amongst the higher ups in the Blood (for being a Paladin and subscribing to the cover beliefs rather than the secret ones) and the other religions (an Atheist Paladin?) By 4e rules this is book-legal. And should be a blast to play.

So there are no fallen paladins in D&D?

In 4e, of course there are. Power once gained isn't revoked. In earlier editions it's easy to check. Fallen paladins (even Blackguards) lose the ability to Lay on Hands. Makes it very hard to infiltrate.

But more than that, being "evil" is not in itself grounds for execution in a civil society.

Something the staff of the News of the World a few years back are greatful for, I'm sure.

Or murders a respected businessman, with no proof of any actual wrongdoing.

Or even legal wrongdoing - see Ebeneezer scrooge.

 

[Zelda Themelin]

Biggest inconsistence for me about Eberron is it's divane mythology. You know, one about vague existance/lack of real gods.

I am allergic to mythologies that don't believe in themselves. I don't play Eberron for this. I own all the books and use stuff for other campaings, though.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Biggest inconsistence for me about Eberron is it's divane mythology. You know, one about vague existance/lack of real gods.

I am allergic to mythologies that don't believe in themselves.

Remote/absent/non-existent (take your pick) deities haven't slowed down religions here on Earth. I'm not sure why they'd be an issue on Eberron.