Eberron = power creep or just pushing the envelope?

[Brisk-sg]

Basically my point is this: in making the warforged a playable race at +0 ecl, they have created a "race" that is unfit to perform the very tasks (war fighting) for which they were created. To put it better, they are no more fit to fight a war than a human is, yet you are paying to make them. They would have made more sense if WoTC gave them the full set of construct abilities and a +2 ecl or something.

In the real world, most resources in a war are devoted to logistics. For every combat unit you have several units in the rear providing logistical support to that unit. The war time advantages of the Warforged in my mind are the following:

1) Limited logistical needs. Warforged need no food, water, or standard supplies. This is a huge advantage in time of war. A division of human troops would likely only have 1/3 to 1/2 of that division devoted to actual combat, the rest would be the logistical train that keeps them well fed, ect. A warforged unit would need infrequent and limited logistical support to operate at 100% efficiency.

2) They do not tire or need sleep, and thus can outmaneuver living units.

3) Eborron is a world of magic as industry. Each warforged is not likely individually crafted (Except for prototype models), but instead is industrially manufactured by low level magic users with the use of magical devices. Industry can keep churning them out on a consistent basis that can outpace human population growth.

4) Before the end of the war they were property, if they are destroyed you are not losing part of your populace and do not have to expend as much political capitol dealing with their loss. (losing an entire division of humans would hit a kingdom much harder then losing an entire division of constructs).

5) Shortened Training time. If the warforged are not created with inherent combat knowledge, they pick it up real quick (seeing as the last warforged are only 2 years old and can be adventures all ready).

There would likely be more upfront cost to a warforged soldier, but much less operational cost. Their limited logistical needs and expendability (in comparison to human/elvaan/dwarven troops) make a very valuable asset in large scale warfare.

 

[Gez]

Repair spells are at least in Tome & Blood.

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

There would likely be more upfront cost to a warforged soldier, but much less operational cost. Their limited logistical needs and expendability (in comparison to human/elvaan/dwarven troops) make a very valuable asset in large scale warfare.

Exactly. Well said.
Their ability to go without food and rest makes them the perfect soldier. Even if they can't fight any better than your average half-orc, their advantages still far exceed their disadvantages.

 

[Aaron2]

1) Limited logistical needs. Warforged need no food, water, or standard supplies. This is a huge advantage in time of war. A division of human troops would likely only have 1/3 to 1/2 of that division devoted to actual combat, the rest would be the logistical train that keeps them well fed, ect. A warforged unit would need infrequent and limited logistical support to operate at 100% efficiency.

That may be true of modern armies, but not ancient ones. The Romans certainly didn't have 50% of their manpower tied up in logistics. Armies back then had a much greater ability to live off the land. Even still, a few low level clerics with wands of Create Food would give a similar benefit with significantly reduced cost. If I can hire 5 orcs for the price of one warforged, does it really matter if 2 of those 5 orcs are dedicated to supply lines?

These constructs would have would have an advantage in maneuverability unless dealing with swampy/muddy terrain or naval transport. Here their great weight would be a huge disadvantage.


Aaron

 

[JPL]

I'd think that the warforged were seen as a way to wage war without risking human lives [or elf lives, or dwarf lives, or whatever], and maybe it wasn't immediately understood that these were fully-sentient ensouled beings.

Depending on an individual culture's view of the value of a single common soldier's life, that could be quite an incentive.

 

[apsuman]

That may be true of modern armies, but not ancient ones. The Romans certainly didn't have 50% of their manpower tied up in logistics. Armies back then had a much greater ability to live off the land. Even still, a few low level clerics with wands of Create Food would give a similar benefit with significantly reduced cost. If I can hire 5 orcs for the price of one warforged, does it really matter if 2 of those 5 orcs are dedicated to supply lines?

These constructs would have would have an advantage in maneuverability unless dealing with swampy/muddy terrain or naval transport. Here their great weight would be a huge disadvantage.


Aaron

The Romans, built their camp EVERY night. Their tents were always in the exact same place so if they were roused in the middle of the night everyone knew where everything was, where the commanders were, etc.

Now you figure that the camp had to be carried with them, set up, and then broken down the next morning and carried with them, set up, ...

My point being that if you had to carry your share of the camp with you, plus armor, you are already well encumbered. The warforged might (or might not) be any faster when actualy underway, but, not having to set up camp and break it down is going to allow him to cover 30% more land everyday. Maybe more.

 

[Zelgadas]

The way I understand it (and I could be wrong), warforged were full-on constructs when they were first created. They had all of the construct immunities and limitations. They did whatever you wanted them to do, they showed no fear in battle, dind't feel pain, didn't need to be supported, and weren't mourned when they were destroyed. Sometime later, they were granted sentience and a limited sort of life. This made them less powerful from a pure combat point of view, but gave them minds of their own and turned them into full-fledged citizens, rather than property and machines of war. Again, correct me if I'm wrong. I'm planning on introducing warforged into my upcoming Arcana Unearthed game, and it could just be that I'm confusing my own backstory for them with the actual, official backstory as published in Eberron.

 

[Aaron2]

The warforged might (or might not) be any faster when actualy underway, but, not having to set up camp and break it down is going to allow him to cover 30% more land everyday. Maybe more.

Much more. Since they can walk 24 hours a day, they can easily cover 3 times as much distance. They would make great raiding parties attacking enemy cities far from the front. However, that only makes them a specialist part of the rest of the army. They would be no better than humans if forced to defend a city from attack. It still wouldn't make sense to replace your entire army with them. I don't know what percentage of the army they compose. Anyone?

I would think that a work where these guys existed in large numbers would see almost all its cities walled; unlike the open cities of the roman empire.


Aaron

 

[Aaron2]

The way I understand it (and I could be wrong), warforged were full-on constructs when they were first created. They had all of the construct immunities and limitations. They did whatever you wanted them to do, they showed no fear in battle, dind't feel pain, didn't need to be supported, and weren't mourned when they were destroyed. Sometime later, they were granted sentience and a limited sort of life. This made them less powerful from a pure combat point of view, but gave them minds of their own and turned them into full-fledged citizens, rather than property and machines of war.

I'd like see a multi-level racial class that gives them their full powers and just assume that the ECL +0 guys are somehow weakened, damaged or incomplete.

I'm gonna stop talking until I finally get to read the book.


Aaron

 

[apsuman]

Much more. Since they can walk 24 hours a day, they can easily cover 3 times as much distance. They would make great raiding parties attacking enemy cities far from the front. However, that only makes them a specialist part of the rest of the army. They would be no better than humans if forced to defend a city from attack. It still wouldn't make sense to replace your entire army with them. I don't know what percentage of the army they compose. Anyone?

I would think that a work where these guys existed in large numbers would see almost all its cities walled; unlike the open cities of the roman empire.


Aaron

I did not think that they had any sort of night vision, so walking 24 hours a day might not be viable.

And as for defending, not needing food, water, rest, and being disease immune means that they can out wait any seige. In medieval Europe they sieging armies would catapult rotting animal corpses to cause disease in the city.