[EDITION WARZ] Selling Out D&D's Soul?

[Remathilis]

(Heck, I'm not quite sure there's a DMG in 2e!)

Oh, there was. Allow me to share with you some of its "gems"

Being a good Dungeon Master involves a lot more than knowing the rules. It calls for quick wit, theatrical flair, and a good sense of dramatic timing—among other things. Most of us can claim these attributes to some degree, but there's always room for improvement.

Fortunately, skills like these can be learned and improved with practice. There are hundreds of tricks, shortcuts, and simple principles that can make you a better, more dramatic, and more creative game master.

But you won't find them in the Dungeon Master Guide. This is a reference book for running the AD&D game. We tried to minimize material that doesn't pertain to the immediate conduct of the game. If you are interested in reading more about this aspect of refereeing, we refer you to Dragon® Magazine, published monthly by TSR, Inc. Dragon Magazine is devoted to role-playing in general and the AD&D game in particular. For more than 16 years, Dragon Magazine has published articles on every facet of role-playing. It is invaluable for DMs and players.

In reality, few, if any, characters are truly hopeless. Certainly, ability scores have an effect on the game, but they are not the overwhelming factor in a character's success or failure. Far more important is the cleverness and ingenuity the player brings to the character.

When a player bemoans his bad luck and "hopeless" character, he may just be upset because the character is not exactly what he wanted. Some players write off any character who has only one above-average ability score. Some complain if a new character does not qualify for a favorite class or race. Others complain if even one ability score is below average. Some players become stuck in super-character mode. Some want a character with no penalties. Some always want to play a particular character class and feel cheated if their scores won't allow it.

In addition to unlimited class choice, humans can attain any level in any class. Once again, this is a human special ability, something no other race has. In the AD&D game, humans are more motivated by ambition and the desire for power than the demihuman races are. Thus, humans advance further and more quickly.

Demihumans can attain significant levels in certain classes, but they do not have the same unlimited access. Some players may argue that the greater age of various non-humans automatically means they will attain greater levels. That can present problems.

Demihuman characters are limited in how high a level they can achieve both to preserve internal consistency (humans are more flexible than non-humans) and to enforce game balance. A DM, however, can change or eliminate these limits as he sees fit. As with class restrictions, the consequences must be examined in detail.

Those are just a few snippits. No wonder no one used the RAW of 2e, it was bland, boring, insulted your intelligence, and illogical all at the same time...

 

[malladin]

You know what I say to that:

It's Still D&D To Me
(with apologies to Billy Joel)

What's the matter with the sword I'm swinging?
Can't you tell that it's too mundane?
Maybe I should buy some leather armor.
How much gold don't you have anyway?
Where have you been hidin' out lately, honey?
You can't fight monsters 'til you spend a lot of money.
Everybody's talkin' 'bout the new game
Funny, but it's still D&D to me.

What's the matter with the horse I'm riding?
Can't you tell that it's out of style?
Should I try to raise a baby griffon?
Yes you can, but it'll take a while.
Nowadays you can't be too sentimental,
Your best bet's a half-dragon half-elemental.
Pokemount, riding dog, half-celestial dire frog,
It's still D&D to me.

Oh, it doesn't matter what they say in the papers,
'Cause it's always been the same old scene.
There's a new game in town but you can't get the sound
From a story in a magazine
Aimed at your average teen.

How about a suite of stat boosting items
And a keen holy flaming burst lance?
You could be a really great hero baby,
If you just give it half a chance.
Don't waste your money on a rod of negation,
You get more mileage from a ring of protection.
Heavy shield, animated, heavy fort, mithril plate,
It's still D&D to me.

What's the matter with the class I'm playing?
Don't you know that it got the shaft?
Should I try to play a cleric/wizard?
If you do then you must be daft.
Don't you know about the new options honey?
You get to stack your saves and your base attack bonii.
It's the next phase, new wave, balanced play, anyways
It's still D&D to me.
Everybody's talkin' 'bout the new game
Funny, but it's still D&D to me.​

 

[WizarDru]

True - it exists in a pale shadow known as PDF purchasing.

Very true. I do impulse buy PDFs...but my $ threshold is considerably lower, I think.

Admittedly, in 1E we didn't know that such customizing existed, and often just stayed strictly within the rules. Hopefully, the newer crowds of players will realize this, and open their doors later to more than just cherry-picking from books just as we did.

We glanced at and often browsed stuff like Arms Law and Claw Law and so forth...but we took a pass on so much of the AD&D rules as it was, we didn't really need MORE of them. But I think just about everybody I knew DM'ed with their own customizations.

I think part of the issue is that WotC has produced SO MUCH STUFF and there are only niches left to cover. I mean, under AD&D you didn't have nearly so much material from TSR for alternate game-styles and variances as you do under 3.X. And if I'm going to choose just one supplement for an alternate magic system, I'm equally likely to pick up one of the four or so that WotC made, as opposed to Melvin's Magic Company.

On the other hand, if not for those side producers, I would have missed stuff like Magical Medieval Europe or the DCC line...so it all balances.

 

[Ghendar]

It's simple, really. The game now has to appeal to people who are all about NOW NOW NOW GIMME GIMME POWER LEVELS and I'm entirely sure that if someone had figured out a way to throw in sparkly computer graphics that lit up your character sheet every time you level dinged, they'd have thrown it in.

The game is no longer about building characters over time. Hell, Dancey and his lot flat out said that "D&D 3 is engineered to be more fun". Think about that. Engineered. To be. More fun. Lunacy! Utter lunacy! The whole f---ed up CR system?! The bang-zoom XP chart? All created because a bunch of marketroids listened to a tiny segment of gamers and decided that after n sessions over n weeks that everyone should be x level because that was a more sound ENGINEERING decision. Don't believe me? Go look up what Sean Reynolds did about Drow weapons disintigrating in sunlight. It was nerfed because that's not FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIR. Just like the rust monster. Pfft. Well somebody CALL THE WAAAAAAAMBULANCE life in the dungeon is a little DIFFICULT.

Well, I agree with all that bolded stuff anyway.

Your mileage may vary. <shrug>

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I never had to return to the old method. The CR numbers are still there. If I have 6 players of fifth level I know that usually a CR 6 monster will work well. DMing is hard work and even for a 4 person party the game will not always work perfectly. No RPG does becasue none of them cover everything the players and DM want to do and how they act.

I just use the average party level based on the assumptions of a 4-member party. 6 characters of 5th level are the equivalent of 4 characters at 7th.

(6*5)/4=7.5 (round down)

It's not perfect, since one high-level character is better than a few low-level characters, but it's ballpark correct within a CR rating. And within 1 CR is probably less than the margin of error for tactics, party composition, and lucky/unlucky rolls.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

It is very nearly possible to run a PHB-only campaign in 3e. There are a few gaps, but mostly things that experienced DMs could wing.

That is a pretty significant change. I think it is reasonable to argue that is a positive change, although I can also understand that some may not see it as a practical advantage.

I pretty much just use the DMG for treasure stats and pre-generated NPC templates. If I were willing to do the work, I could probably dispense with the MM, although I don't see any reason to do so. Theoretically, I could play with just the first half of the PHB, dispense with spells, and run a gritty campaign. It would be totally doable, and no systems would get broken. But I don't really see why I would want to do so except to prove hysterical internet people wrong. And I don't care about doing that. D&D is robust, with or without all its rules, thanks in part to the unified mechanic. I just happen to like all the bells and whistles.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Man, I hate the sentiment that "roleplaying" = "wish fulfilment".

Would you rather spend your afternoon frustrating your wishes?

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

It is still possible to stat an NPC up in minutes.

Go visit the wiki in my sig. Take an NPC, alter slightly until perfect for your scene. Easy as pie, thanks to teh intarwebs.

 

[Zaruthustran]

Man, I hate the sentiment that "roleplaying" = "wish fulfilment".

Huh? What else could it possibly be?

I listened to Tim Schafer talk at the GDC about game and character design, which is where I first heard the claim "all games are wish fulfillment." I think to be clear, all *roleplaying* games are wish fulfillment. Sudoko, crossword puzzles, and most board games are mental exercises.

But that game where you get to be a big barbarian, crush your enemies, drive them before you, and hear the lamentations of their women? Totally wish fulfillment.

There's a reason D&D is called a FANTASY role playing game. Playing it allows the players to enact their fantasies. The whole point of the game is to make your character more and more powerful, able to take on bigger and bigger challenges, collect ever more astounding treasures, accomplish increasingly impactful deeds.

Wish fulfillment.

-z

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

But that game where you get to be a big barbarian, crush your enemies, drive them before you, and hear the lamentations of their women? Totally wish fulfillment.

Gah! I play RPGs to get away from my day job.