Effects lasting until the end of the encounter, w00t!

[Li Shenron]

Back on topic, one of the good potential side effects of 'buffs lasting for the encounter' is the mountain climbing scenario.

It is a classic situation where a bulls strength spell to give someone the edge in climbing would be really useful, but the 3.5e 1 minute per level makes it worthless for pretty much any non-combat situations.

i.e. encounter-duration buffs could prove very useful for noncombat encounters.

Another thing in favor of 3.0

 

[VirgilCaine]

That combined with the tendency of some of the better buffs to actually be traps for instakilling your own character equals, ah, "teh suck".

Is this the typical situation of people just not reading close enough or what?

 

[Calico_Jack73]

Very cool, but the new argument will be when does one encounter end and another starts. At initiative? What about an out-of-combat buff like bull's strength before breaking down a door?

I'm sure these questions will be answered, or at least I hope so.

I never really had that problem with the White-Wolf system where many of the "Powers" last for a Scene. I'd probably treat it as such for non-combat uses of spells such as Bull's Strength.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

The new trend of 4E!!!!!
From the creators of "Bag of rats"!!!!!


GOBLIN ON A LEASH!!!!!!

Tired having to recast Buffs for every encounter? Not wanting to spend precious per day buffs for a single battle? A goblin on a leash is the solution.
Cast your buffs and fight the encounter as normal. And when you vanquished your foe simply start kicking the goblin. One kick every 6 seconds is enough to keep this encounter going forever. Clear out a complete dungeon with a single casting of your buffs.
And if you call now you also get a stealthmaster 5000 gag. No monster will hear the goblin anymore, giving you valuable combat advantages.

And this complete package only costs 99.95 g.

Not satisfied? Then get the Kickmonkey Mk II. Our highly educated animal handlers trained monkeys to kick the goblin on their own. This way you can scout ahead without having to worry that the goblin won't be kicked. Or apply the Kickmonkey at night and have the buffs last whole weeks or even months. And all that for just 50 g extra*.

*Bananas not included

For risks and side effects consult your local Fighter, Rogue and Wizard or any other character with abilities that can be only used once per encounter.
Please also note that while ritual sacrifice of users of this method by game masters or players is not legal, it might still occur in certain gaming circles.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Another thing in favor of 3.0

Yes. I think it was an example of "over-compensation" (which is always a danger when trying to fix a problem)
Designer 1/Gamer Complaint 1: Doubly Empowered Buff spells that last all day are overpowered and make buff items useless!
Designer 2: Let's remove Double Empowering, reduce the duration, and fix the effect!

I think one of them might have been enough. Our group went for 10 minutes per level duration, but I think reducing the bonus to +2 and a duration of 1 hour per level (with improved versions at higher levels) might have been even better.

 

[neceros]

Very cool, but the new argument will be when does one encounter end and another starts. At initiative? What about an out-of-combat buff like bull's strength before breaking down a door?

I'm sure these questions will be answered, or at least I hope so.

That door you're breaking down is an encounter.

 

[med stud]

That door you're breaking down is an encounter.

I'd say it's a corner case and one that needs that to be adjucated by the DM. The rules can't cover for everything by themselves.

 

[jasin]

Actually, scene-based durations bite me a lot in Exalted, because they mean you have to put up your buffs for each individual battle, usually no earlier than the actual outbreak of hostilities.

Why is that?

Assuming you're preparing an ambush or a surprise assault, wouldn't it be reasonable to say that the beginning of the scene is when you start powering up, rather than the moment you jump out of the bushes/break down the door and role initiative?

That combined with the tendency of some of the better buffs to actually be traps for instakilling your own character equals, ah, "teh suck".

How do these self-kill traps work?

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

If anyone tried "goblin on a leash" as a tactic in a game I was running so that their "per encounter" abilities effectively last all day, I would politely ask them not to. If they absolutely persisted in it, I would have tales of their cruelty spread far and wide, and probably have other people turn up trying to free the goblin.

The reason I dislike "You've cast your buff and broken the door, so your buff ends" is that it seems to imply that it would have ended even if there were a group of monsters on the other side of the door. This, for me, would be a distint example of something that is NotFun.

I think "per encounter" abilties should be fine for most groups, so long as everyone is happy to set a standard about what it means. Surely it's not going to break the game for the DM to be a little lenient (in terms of 'Yes, the immediate reinforcements count as the same encounter and your spells are still working') but firm ('Slapping each other does not continue the encounter, nor does having a goblin on a leash, nor does any other deliberate attempt to prolong spells outside of the obvious').

I think that whatever rules you try and put in place, some players will try and take advantage of them. It's not necessarily a fault with the rules.

 

[.:avatar:.]

I like this very much!

It reminds me "per scene" of White Wolf game. It is nice to see that 4e was inspired by good stuff of other games: only by such sincretism can rpg improve!