Eldritch Blast as a class feature of the Warlock

[Sir Brennen]

I’m perfectly fine with representing my patron through spell selection and roleplaying, and don’t feel the need to have unique mechanical powers to make that relationship meaningful. Or, expressed more mundanely, I will stick my Patron, and thus my subclass, at 1st level. I just won't get any mechanical benefit until 3rd level. Which, again, is fine with me.

Not saying you can't, but it may not be presented that way in the final official material. Delaying the decision of a PC's patron until 3rd level sounds like a new player friendly step they may take.

 

[MarkB]

Not saying you can't, but it may not be presented that way in the final official material. Delaying the decision of a PC's patron until 3rd level sounds like a new player friendly step they may take.

That would be weird. So at first and second level you've just, like, put your soul and CV up on LinkedIn and are waiting to see which otherworldly employer comes back to you with the best offer?

 

[Incenjucar]

That would be weird. So at first and second level you've just, like, put your soul and CV up on LinkedIn and are waiting to see which otherworldly employer comes back to you with the best offer?

Not an uncommon occurrence in horror stories.

 

[mellored]

That would be weird. So at first and second level you've just, like, put your soul and CV up on LinkedIn and are waiting to see which otherworldly employer comes back to you with the best offer?

I kind of preferred the "you made a pact with something, but you don't know what"

Then roll a d6 and see who your patron is.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I kind of preferred the "you made a pact with something, but you don't know what"

Then roll a d6 and see who your patron is.

Right? There are lots of RP variants where you don't know who your Patron is for the first couple of levels. Kind of like "The Firm" but even darker.

But, like I said upthread, even if you don't like that, you can still know who your Patron is at first level, even if you don't actually get any distinct mechanical powers until 3rd level. I don't understand why people believe they need the distinct power in order to have the Patron.

 

[FireLance]

Why for warlocks and not clerics? Surely a priest's connection with their deity should be at least as unique and personal as a warlock's with their patron.

In my view, the difference between the cleric-deity relationship and the warlock-patron relationship is kind of like the difference between off-the-rack and bespoke.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

The cleric is also a PR thing for the deity. Warlocks not so much for the patron. In fact, I could see devils empowering a warlock (or several warlocks) who would create chaos as a provocation for a kingdom to impose harsher laws. Those warlocks might think they were getting empowered by demons, yugoloths, or night hags, and not even realize they are patsies for the devils.

 

[FireLance]

I thought the simplest solution would be to bring eldritch blast in line with the other attack cantrips. Warlocks can then pick one attack cantrip (or the cantrip can depend on the patron) to be their Pact Malison, and at 1st level, they get some enhancement to the Pact Malison, such as an increased damage die. All invocations that improve eldritch blast improve the Pact Malison instead.

 

[Bolares]

That's part of the general problem with spells becoming abilities. Seems to me a lot of ability descriptions could start with "You cast a spell that..." Or simply:

Eldritch Blast (spell): As an Action....etc.

That could be used in class descriptions and monster stat blocs.

Tormenta20, a brazillian fantasy setting has a rather elegant solution for this problem. Any ability that is considered magicar has a dragon symbol next to it's description, so you now that anything that affects spells also affects that ability. I find this to be a simple and effective solution.

 

[Horwath]

Tormenta20, a brazillian fantasy setting has a rather elegant solution for this problem. Any ability that is considered magicar has a dragon symbol next to it's description, so you now that anything that affects spells also affects that ability. I find this to be a simple and effective solution.

Or 3.5e; Spell-like ability(Sp) that was subjected to all effects that affect spells and Supernatural ability(Su) that was not.

 

[Cruentus]

In my view, the difference between the cleric-deity relationship and the warlock-patron relationship is kind of like the difference between off-the-rack and bespoke.

As a cleric, you select your deity and then worship them, not that that means anything in DnD anymore. As a Warlock, you don’t pick your patron, usually, you either stumble upon them, they find you, or maybe you do get to pick. I see Warlocks as much more random, especially what you might receive. Apologies if I misunderstood which of your examples was bespoke.

I think making EB a class feature is fine, but I’m still not happy with the damage cantrip spam for days element of spellcasting overall. I wish there was more there that would make them more interesting, and I don’t mean by just adding riders. It’s just too easy.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

I know it would be hell on the page count, but really each patron should have their own spell list. Or maybe there is a short list of relatively generic spells that all Warlocks can access, plus unique spell lists.

I mean, personally I think Warlock should be a prestige class (or set of prestige classes) for after you form a pact with some being of great power. Generally I think that's how a slew of character ideas that presume some sort of highly consequential event (like getting knighted or contracting lycanthropy) should be handled.

Warlocks are cool, and have lots of great design innovations, but the lore has not been a good fit in 5e. Having one class that just starts with a high ranking supernatural being as an npc ally is problematic. But also why are these supernatural entities all recruiting level 1 scrubs rather than trying to win over high level servants? Yes you could have a high level Wizard form a pact with Asmodius in pursuit of more magic, but his core spellcasting takes a nosedive, in favor of getting a better cantrip, which he has to cast with Charisma for some reason. Forming a pact for more magic should make you better at magic.

I'd prefer Warlock as a prestige class you can take after swearing service to a being of great power, that would continue your existing spell progression but replace your class and subclass features with Eldritch invocations and a pact boon.

 

[Vael]

I don't mind making Eldritch Blast a class feature, but I do wish they'd take away the multi-targetting and just have it scale like other cantrips. And introduce a generic ranged force cantrip for the other Arcane users.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I mean, personally I think Warlock should be a prestige class (or set of prestige classes) for after you form a pact with some being of great power. Generally I think that's how a slew of character ideas that presume some sort of highly consequential event (like getting knighted or contracting lycanthropy) should be handled.

Warlocks are cool, and have lots of great design innovations, but the lore has not been a good fit in 5e. Having one class that just starts with a high ranking supernatural being as an npc ally is problematic. But also why are these supernatural entities all recruiting level 1 scrubs rather than trying to win over high level servants? Yes you could have a high level Wizard form a pact with Asmodius in pursuit of more magic, but his core spellcasting takes a nosedive, in favor of getting a better cantrip, which he has to cast with Charisma for some reason. Forming a pact for more magic should make you better at magic.

I'd prefer Warlock as a prestige class you can take after swearing service to a being of great power, that would continue your existing spell progression but replace your class and subclass features with Eldritch invocations and a pact boon.

I agree that all of that makes sense narratively, and I wouldn't mind playing a game like that, but I don't think it's in the spirit of D&D. At least not 5e (and One), which assiduously avoids any situation where class powers are gated by the unpredictability of adventuring. For example, wizards don't have to explain how they add new spells to their spellbook when they level. Paladins have no explicit rules for maintaining their oaths. No guidance is given for what animals Druids "have seen". Etc.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

I agree that all of that makes sense narratively, and I wouldn't mind playing a game like that, but I don't think it's in the spirit of D&D. At least not 5e (and One), which assiduously avoids any situation where class powers are gated by the unpredictability of adventuring. For example, wizards don't have to explain how they add new spells to their spellbook when they level. Paladins have no explicit rules for maintaining their oaths. No guidance is given for what animals Druids "have seen". Etc.

Oh absolutely. I was definitely speaking way outside the realm of what might be in any variation of D&D branded 5e game anytime soon.

But in the coming clone age there will be 5e flavors available for all tastes.

 

[MarkB]

I mean, personally I think Warlock should be a prestige class (or set of prestige classes) for after you form a pact with some being of great power. Generally I think that's how a slew of character ideas that presume some sort of highly consequential event (like getting knighted or contracting lycanthropy) should be handled.

Warlocks are cool, and have lots of great design innovations, but the lore has not been a good fit in 5e. Having one class that just starts with a high ranking supernatural being as an npc ally is problematic. But also why are these supernatural entities all recruiting level 1 scrubs rather than trying to win over high level servants? Yes you could have a high level Wizard form a pact with Asmodius in pursuit of more magic, but his core spellcasting takes a nosedive, in favor of getting a better cantrip, which he has to cast with Charisma for some reason. Forming a pact for more magic should make you better at magic.

I'd prefer Warlock as a prestige class you can take after swearing service to a being of great power, that would continue your existing spell progression but replace your class and subclass features with Eldritch invocations and a pact boon.

Some of that can be accomplished through multiclassing, and warlock is a common multiclass choice or dip.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

the orginal warlock eldritch blast followed (almost, 1 level it changed) the sneak attack chart... so you would basicly do 1d6 per 2 levels

 

[Pauln6]

the orginal warlock eldritch blast followed (almost, 1 level it changed) the sneak attack chart... so you would basicly do 1d6 per 2 levels

The Rogue has to work to sneak attack though. What were the limitations on eldritch blast? The cantrip mechanics sort of ate the 3e at will damage progression. I can't see them changing the baseline unless it's via invocations.

 

[Incenjucar]

There's always just the hack of giving warlocks Eldritch Empowerment that lets them add bonus damage to any single-target cantrip.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

The Rogue has to work to sneak attack though. What were the limitations on eldritch blast?

do they though? and the rogue gets to add a weapon die and stat mod.

I rarely ind rouges that attack 2 rounds in a row withoout 1 being a sneak attack... and I defiantly see more combats where the rogue has SA every round then ones where there is even 1 round without.

if we did this the rogue would still be ahead
1d4 (knife) +3 (dex) +1d6 sneak attack (average 9)
1d6 eldritch blast (average 3.5)
1d4 (knife) +3 (dex) +9d6 sneak attack (average 37)
9d6 eldritch blast (average 31.5)

mabe that is why at like 15th+ level there was a skip level where rogue gor +1 d6 and the warlock did not...

The cantrip mechanics sort of ate the 3e at will damage progression. I can't see them changing the baseline unless it's via invocations.

I think we can make eldritch blast work off something other then cantrip damage to make it stand out... right now it is multi rays.

my quick idea would be "You deal 1d6 per prof and at level 6 can split them into up to 2 beams, and at 12th up to 3 beams, if you split the beams 2 beams can't targeet the same target"
then you can have an invocation that adds cha mod to damage of each bEAM