Elven spellcasters at rest

[dvvega]

I believe the "no skill checks" part refers to active skill checks, not passive.

If it were passive, any DM with half an evil streak would just have a passive listen check every night "to see if anything's creeping".

As for this whole trance thing ... I think it's extremely silly. I understand the concept ... hey even a movie like Hawk the Slayer had Crow (the elven archer) trancing before combat, but it is silly.

It is playable though. And IMC all ARCANE spellcasters require 8 hours of rest of one form or another (does not have to be consecutive - not stated anywhere in the PHB i know of) ... and THEN they need their 1 hour or so of meditation/reading/memorisation etc.

Elven spellcasters "sleep" for 4 hours, and must be nice and calm and peaceful for another 4. Otherwise, elven spellcasters should rule the world. Imagine just trancing for 4 hours and then getting your spells back.

Actually a militant group of elves IMC uses just this fact ... that they rest for only 4 hours and can attack unprepared vilalges/towns etc.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

If it were passive, any DM with half an evil streak would just have a passive listen check every night "to see if anything's creeping".

So he could ruin elven spellcaster's rest whenever he wanted to. Before long, the players with those elven spellcasters would quit the game (and probably a couple of the other ones as well).

Remember that the DM could rule it thus if he wanted to. Or could make a lot of other stupid stuff. If he wanted to, he could really piss off every player. But not for long, for he can't keep the players at the table, and they'd leave for sure.

As for this whole trance thing ... I think it's extremely silly. I understand the concept ... hey even a movie like Hawk the Slayer had Crow (the elven archer) trancing before combat, but it is silly.

It's the elven way. They don't sleap, they have their trance/reverie. I can't see anything silly about it.

It is playable though. And IMC all ARCANE spellcasters require 8 hours of rest of one form or another (does not have to be consecutive - not stated anywhere in the PHB i know of) ... and THEN they need their 1 hour or so of meditation/reading/memorisation etc.

All arcane spellcasters need 8 hours of rest, that is in the core rules

Actually a militant group of elves IMC uses just this fact ... that they rest for only 4 hours and can attack unprepared vilalges/towns etc.

What a bunch of evil bastards. I heard of humans who did a similar thing: they went to bed 5 hours early and took the elven settlement by surprise!

Seriously: that's hardly an advantage, since you can attack when you want. They won't tremble in towns if they hear that the elven agressors have just gone to sleep, and will be upon them in a little more than 4 hours! The'll just move over and slaughter them in the sleep....

 

[Aloïsius]

Does that means that spellcasters can never have sex at night ? Just think about a couple of charismatic elven sorcerers : they will either be frustrated (four hours doing nothing while the other sleep) or helpless (not having their spells)...

More seriously, if rest = meditation, may be you can allow a concentration check, DC 15 to " meditate" while doing something else (reading sacred text, painting, playing music...). I don't think it will be unbalancing, the most important thing being the 8h recent casting limit, imho.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I'm for a more liberal way to interprete that.

Obviously, they won't write anything about sex into the core rules (but it would be nice to hear about sex and spell preparation in the Netbook of Carnal Knowledge ), because of the younger players (and maybe because we geeks tend to get aroused so quickly ). But I think that "that" might be a allowed pastime in the night (without having to need more than 8 hours rest), since some who already did "it" say that it's quite invigorating. In fact, it might be a good thing to do for elves after their hours of trance.....

 

[Number47]

Why do you think there are so few elves in the world?

Oh, and by the way, Intuit Direction IS an active skill. Read it.

 

[Gez]

Originally posted by KaeYoss
It's the elven way. They don't sleap, they have their trance/reverie. I can't see anything silly about it.

It is silly. With the exception of Truly Weird Things(tm) (Ooze, Outsiders, Undead, some (but not all) Aberrations) everything sleep.

Furthermore, elves boast some connections to nature and to the fey, but if they can't sleep; they can't dream; and in my book, this is an unnatural thing that make them abhorent to the fey.

However, I just consider that this "trance" thing is a special technique, sort of a zen meditation thing, they learn during their childhood (after all, they can't be so dumb they need one whole century to learn how to walk and speak, they must[/i) spend some time learning other things) and used during travels (so as to reduce the length of time they're helpless in unsheltered places) and when they feel a bit confused about their long, chaotic life in their head.

This way, it is less stupid and can actually make some sense. IMO, elves are naturally creatures of the present (outside of the Middle-Earth, I don't like the Tolkien vision of them as creatures of the past) and thus live in the present; having long life and short memory. Their mind naturally match their body, making them eternal adolescents. This also explain why they need so much more time than other races to learn things (just compare the amount of time a stupid half-orc need to train as a first level wizard with the amount of time an elf need for the same thing).

However, at a time of their history, they once discovered this trance technique that allowed them to reawaken old memories; and only then they could achieve great things.

About 2e, the reverie thing is among one of the numerous things that made me heavily dislike the CBoE. Other complete books just added some background infos and munchkin kits. This one added loots of kewl powah to all elves (immune to diseases (despite their low con!), immune to temperature change (yet able to detect the slightiest change!), unbreakable and "uncrackable" telepathic communications at will, and so on). Hapifully, most of that crap has been removed in 3e. Sadly, they keeped the reverie, although in a less twink version.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

It is silly. With the exception of Truly Weird Things(tm) (Ooze, Outsiders, Undead, some (but not all) Aberrations) everything sleep.

I hear noone complaining that there are creatures that have dragon and human ancestors. I hear noone complaining that dwarves can see in the Dark, but it's only black-and-white, and still they don't complain abut this monocrome outlook. I see noone complaining that a monk's training makes him immune to poison, and resistant to magic.

Why, you ask? Because it's fantasy. It's all fairy tales. And in these fairy tales, elves don't sleep. They instead enter a trancelike state that keeps them alert (they even keep their eyes open), but is much more invigorating than sleep.

they can't dream;

They can. In fact, the revery offers much more vivid dreams than sleep. And you don't drool in reverie

And the fey like elves because they respect nature, not because they close their eyes at night.

However, I just consider that this "trance" thing is a special technique, sort of a zen meditation thing, they learn during their childhood (after all, they can't be so dumb they need one whole century to learn how to walk and speak, they must[/i) spend some time learning other things) and used during travels (so as to reduce the length of time they're helpless in unsheltered places) and when they feel a bit confused about their long, chaotic life in their head.

This way, it is less stupid and can actually make some sense. IMO, elves are naturally creatures of the present (outside of the Middle-Earth, I don't like the Tolkien vision of them as creatures of the past) and thus live in the present; having long life and short memory. Their mind naturally match their body, making them eternal adolescents. This also explain why they need so much more time than other races to learn things (just compare the amount of time a stupid half-orc need to train as a first level wizard with the amount of time an elf need for the same thing).

However, at a time of their history, they once discovered this trance technique that allowed them to reawaken old memories; and only then they could achieve great things.

About 2e, the reverie thing is among one of the numerous things that made me heavily dislike the CBoE. Other complete books just added some background infos and munchkin kits. This one added loots of kewl powah to all elves (immune to diseases (despite their low con!), immune to temperature change (yet able to detect the slightiest change!), unbreakable and "uncrackable" telepathic communications at will, and so on). Hapifully, most of that crap has been removed in 3e. Sadly, they keeped the reverie, although in a less twink version.

You know, elves have a rather better memory than humans.

 

[Gez]

I don't see them that way; and prefer my vision.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Noone keeps you. But I hope you understand that it's quasi rule-0. So if "your" elves don't dream in their reverie/trance, that's OK for you, but don't complain that they don't, because by the books, they do.

 

[Gez]

Noone keeps you. But I hope you understand that it's quasi rule-0. So if "your" elves don't dream in their reverie/trance, that's OK for you, but don't complain that they don't, because by the books, they do.

I don't understood the trance as a real dream. It seems more, by what I've seen, as a pseudo-dream, something controlled and consciously created; where the elf can relive his old memories -- whereas the dreams everyone else knows are only in part reliving of past memories, with lots of strange stuff added from whatever gave us some thoughts, all mixed and twisted in frequently unrecognizable forms.

In extenso, a trance's dreamlike state is accurate to the elf's history, while a dream is more mysterious. My elves prefer actual sleep and dream -- they enjoy it far more -- but they know they need to use that trance; and also this is more practical when adventuring.