Elven spellcasters at rest

[Kae'Yoss]

My elves prefer actual sleep and dream -- they enjoy it far more -- but they know they need to use that trance; and also this is more practical when adventuring.

Hm.. the Protagonist of the Return of the Archwizards Trilogy, An elven sorcerer name Galaeron, undergoes a slow process of change as he starts to use the Shadow Weave. He starts to get paranoid, and even starts to sleep. Fellow elves who watched him sleep thought it's disgusting. After all, it's something humans do.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Hm.. the Protagonist of the Return of the Archwizards Trilogy, An elven sorcerer name Galaeron, undergoes a slow process of change as he starts to use the Shadow Weave. He starts to get paranoid, and even starts to sleep. Fellow elves who watched him sleep thought it's disgusting. After all, it's something humans do.

If it's something humans do they should try and learn how themsleves. But of course elves aren't smart enough to learn from others, instead they indoctinate their young in xenophobic, hate filed beliefs so they can never truly learn anything new from others. And an elfs memory is no better than any other races memory, if it was they would have a + to wisdom or something instead of dex.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

If it's something humans do they should try and learn how themsleves. But of course elves aren't smart enough to learn from others, instead they indoctinate their young in xenophobic, hate filed beliefs so they can never truly learn anything new from others. And an elfs memory is no better than any other races memory, if it was they would have a + to wisdom or something instead of dex.

First, elves some elves are quite racist (especially gold elves).

Also, why the hell should they try and learn how to sleep? If I were to choose between doing the think I can do from birth (which is much more invigorating, lasts only half as long, lets you keep alert and doesn't make you look awful) and something I have to learn first - if that's possible at all - (which lasts twice as long, is less invigorating, lets me be as alert as a stone, makes me drool and all and lets me have a real bad mood right after it), which would I choose???

And though elves have no bonus to int (though sun elves and drow do), and int controls memory, they surely have no shorter memory, because they have no penalty to int (though wild and wood elves do).
But I hope noone wants to tell me they have worse senses, just because they have no better Wis than other races. They do have a +2 racial bonus for listen, spot and search checks...

 

[Shard O'Glase]

First, elves some elves are quite racist (especially gold elves).

Also, why the hell should they try and learn how to sleep? If I were to choose between doing the think I can do from birth (which is much more invigorating, lasts only half as long, lets you keep alert and doesn't make you look awful) and something I have to learn first - if that's possible at all - (which lasts twice as long, is less invigorating, lets me be as alert as a stone, makes me drool and all and lets me have a real bad mood right after it), which would I choose???

And though elves have no bonus to int (though sun elves and drow do), and int controls memory, they surely have no shorter memory, because they have no penalty to int (though wild and wood elves do).
But I hope noone wants to tell me they have worse senses, just because they have no better Wis than other races. They do have a +2 racial bonus for listen, spot and search checks...

They might want to learn how to sleep, because sleep is really enjoyable, sleep gives you actual dreams, not I'm a little eog freak elts exmaine my past crap, the sleeping races are spanking the elves world wide in almost all campaign worlds so maybe there is somethign to it.

Yes sun elves(FR twink elves) get a +2 int if yu let such sillyness in your game. Drow get +2 int at the cost of a couple EL so they amy have more int but everyone else has more knowledge shown in their levels. And considering their racist tendences if the designers had built elves right a sopposed to lets make the twink lovers happy they would of given them a -4 int and had them act like the redneck twits they are. "yeppers we don't cotton to you round ears, we's only like us frolicky pointy eared types in these parts." response, " yeah but since there are so few of you in a comunity aren't you dating you moms sister right now."

Yeah and sure elves got better senses the better to see the impending doom of their pathetic racist empires.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

They might want to learn how to sleep, because sleep is really enjoyable, sleep gives you actual dreams, not I'm a little eog freak elts exmaine my past crap, the sleeping races are spanking the elves world wide in almost all campaign worlds so maybe there is somethign to it.

IIRCAIUD, the dreams you get from reverie are much more vivid than the ones you get from sleeping.

And the other races (really just humans) only "spank" the elves because of their superior numbers (and they do it with all the other races, too). Also, they tend to get along well in many campaign worlds (if that were different, many parties would be doomed to rip themselves appart, or you had to ban certain races as PC races. Now THAT would be racist

Yes sun elves(FR twink elves) get a +2 int if yu let such sillyness in your game.

Most of the games I play in are either FR games or the characters are from the FR (in the case of the Ravenloft campaign).

And what's silly about a Race with a bonus to int and favored class of wizard? We have halflings with favored class or rogue and +2 to dex - and bonuses to hide and move silently checks. We have half-orcs with a STR bonus and FC barbarian. We have Dwarves with a CON bonus.
Also, what's so silly about a race that's more intelligent than others?

Drow get +2 int at the cost of a couple EL so they amy have more int

No, they have +Int AND +Cha with no additional ability score penalties, better saving throw bonuses than other elves, spell-like ablilities and freaking damn spell resistance at the cost of a couple EL.

I see you already have to pull things out of the context to support your arguments.

but everyone else has more knowledge shown in their levels.

Ah. So having more skill points is so silly, but having more HP is not? Or a better Attack bonus? Or being able to do more damage?

And considering their racist tendences

Well, they're not all racist. In fact, I have seen much more racist dwarf characters than elf characters!

if the designers had built elves right a sopposed to lets make the twink lovers happy

oh, please grow up.

they would of given them a -4 int and had them act like the redneck twits they are. "yeppers we don't cotton to you round ears, we's only like us frolicky pointy eared types in these parts." response, " yeah but since there are so few of you in a comunity aren't you dating you moms sister right now."

Hm... now YOU're being overly racist. I wonder what that tells me about your Int, if your logic is correct.

Which isn't. Being racist doesn't mean being stupid. Maybe it's a tendency towards evil, but not towards stupidity. (Dragons are quite Intelligent, too, and they consider all other races inferior.)

Yeah and sure elves got better senses the better to see the impending doom of their pathetic racist empires.

The worst part is, you think you're funny.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

The worst part is, you think you're funny.

No the worst part is someone so uptight about elves, they can't see a joke when it's right in front of them.

About the only semi-serious thing I put i was the about the sun elves. And that comes purely that I think it is absolute, poorly written trash on the part of the designers to give a select few races, sub races.(I have the same oppinion of pretige classes) People who like certain races shouldn't get such a huge min/maxing edge as to be able to pick from over 4 racial types all with different benefits, while someone who wants to play other races get stuck with only one version and therefore a lot less min/maxing potential.

 

[Gez]

I wonder why there's no elf-troll crossbreed race, since elves seems to be irresistible troll baits.

Oh well. So, in Return of the Archwizard, there's a hidden bit of background about elves unable to have normal sleep and finding it disgusting because humans do it (as well as every animals in their beloved forest, but well, elves are no rationnal creatures).

That's the vision of the author of that novel. I never saw it mentionned anywhere else; and in fact I'm not sure I like the idea. Or rather, I'm sure I don't like it.

About the problem of elven racism; my own pet peeved with that it's always the intellectual races that develop racist doctrines. Sun elves, GH gray "faery" elves... Usually, they are depicted as if they had a crippling Wisdom penalty to balance the Int bonus (things like Demonfey or Eldeth Veluuthra are, in my mind, especially stupid and unwise ideas).

Overall, I regret D&D elves are seen as sort of Noldors. If there's a similarity between Tolkien's and Gygax's elves, it's in The Hobbit we should seek it. Here, the elves are indeed Chaotic and Good folk; not lawful-evil (at best lawful-neutral) celestial superhuman snobs like so much TSR novelists depicts them.

 

[Gez]

I wonder why there's no elf-troll crossbreed race, since elves seems to be irresistible troll baits.

Oh well. So, in Return of the Archwizard, there's a hidden bit of background about elves unable to have normal sleep and finding it disgusting because humans do it (as well as every animals in their beloved forest, but well, elves are no rationnal creatures).

That's the vision of the author of that novel. I never saw it mentionned anywhere else; and in fact I'm not sure I like the idea. Or rather, I'm sure I don't like it.

About the problem of elven racism; my own pet peeved with that it's always the intellectual races that develop racist doctrines. Sun elves, GH gray "faery" elves... Usually, they are depicted as if they had a crippling Wisdom penalty to balance the Int bonus (things like Demonfey or Eldeth Veluuthra are, in my mind, especially stupid and unwise ideas).

Overall, I regret D&D elves are seen as sort of Noldors. If there's a similarity between Tolkien's and Gygax's elves, it's in The Hobbit we should seek it. Here, the elves are indeed Chaotic and Good folk; not lawful-evil (at best lawful-neutral) celestial superhuman snobs like so much TSR novelists depicts them.

 

[CmdrSam]

The description under elves in the PHB says "While meditating, an elf dreams, but these dreams are actually mental exercises that have become reflexive through years of practice."

In the description of the Dream spell in the PHB (send someone a message in their dreams):

"Creatures who don't sleep or dream (such as elves, but not half-elves) cannot be contacted by this spell."

So elves don't really dream in trance.

--Sam L-L

 

[Kae'Yoss]

No the worst part is someone so uptight about elves, they can't see a joke when it's right in front of them.

About the only semi-serious thing I put i was the about the sun elves. And that comes purely that I think it is absolute, poorly written trash on the part of the designers to give a select few races, sub races.(I have the same oppinion of pretige classes) People who like certain races shouldn't get such a huge min/maxing edge as to be able to pick from over 4 racial types all with different benefits, while someone who wants to play other races get stuck with only one version and therefore a lot less min/maxing potential.

What's so bad about variations? Must all elves look the same? Must they all be the same? The same goes with all other races, of course. Besides, Tolkien had Sub-Races, and noone complains (and since D&D has "borrowed" a lot from Tolkien, they "borrowed" that concept, too.
You only see that there are used to min-max (much unlike making half-orc fighters or halfling thieves, I see). They can also be used to give more options to the players, so that they can customize their character better.

And, if you don't like to have smart elves, play the standard one instead. I alway wonder why people complain about things because they're possible and won't harm anyone. It's the same with all those 2e dinosaurs that keep on ranting that only humans may be paladins. They somehow seem to think that someone will now force them to make a tiefling paladin or something.