Poster Bard
First Post
interwyrm said:
Even Peewhittle from Wizards?
Perhaps, you haven't yet met the right elf?
Elves - Love em or Hate em?
- Thread starter interwyrm
- Start date
Even Peewhittle from Wizards?
Perhaps, you haven't yet met the right elf?
Dalprin
First Post
Well, I like Elves but don't love them. I got burned out on them in 2nd edition when every one of my fellow players would choose them as a race because they were so powerful. 3rd edition seemed to to have a chilling effect on this...
(oldtimer's voice) "I remember back in the day when high elf fighter/magic users were as common as dandelions, and you couldn't take two steps without running into a elven fighter/magic user/ thief. Now... I fear they have gone the way of the dodo."
However, I still liked the idea of a more concerned with nature, chaotic, magical race. 3rd edition got rid of a lot of the tweeks so the players who were into them just for the power chose human or dwarf instead. Those people who liked the elves for roleplaying stayed with them. Some of them even play half-elves (who are too trimmed down - powerwise).
(oldtimer's voice) "I remember back in the day when high elf fighter/magic users were as common as dandelions, and you couldn't take two steps without running into a elven fighter/magic user/ thief. Now... I fear they have gone the way of the dodo."
However, I still liked the idea of a more concerned with nature, chaotic, magical race. 3rd edition got rid of a lot of the tweeks so the players who were into them just for the power chose human or dwarf instead. Those people who liked the elves for roleplaying stayed with them. Some of them even play half-elves (who are too trimmed down - powerwise).
Aldarc
Legend
I hate D&D elves, but my problem with them is largely with the generic and rehashed nature of D&D and preconceived notions of elves that players get from reading crappy novels with elves in them that have all the perks and none of the flaws of Tolkien elves. I like Tolkien elves to an extent; they go with the world, but Tolkien elves should stay in Middle-Earth. I hate the fact that people feel that they need to create a dime a dozen variations of elves that all live within the world and have no real difference other than culture and stat bonuses. My other problem with them is that despite their numerous variations of the abilities or their in-game culture they are only played in two ways: skinny humans with pointy ears or super humans. There seems to be no real difference in mindset between races, which is my problem for almost all of the standard D&D races: skinny humans, short and tough humans, short and trickster humans, short and skinny humans, primitive humans, etc.
In short I hate elves because they have become the stale staple of fantasy that has rarely grown or evolved past the same boring, one-dimensional, poorly imitated Tolkien elves of so many fantasy novels whose authors are unable to construct either a unqiue world or story.
In short I hate elves because they have become the stale staple of fantasy that has rarely grown or evolved past the same boring, one-dimensional, poorly imitated Tolkien elves of so many fantasy novels whose authors are unable to construct either a unqiue world or story.
Viktyr Gehrig
First Post
Eh. You know, I like the concept of elves, and I like the roleplaying potential of elves, but I absolutely detest the way they're portrayed in D&D, both mechanically and in the associated fiction.
I voted Hate. There was a time when I refused to play elves and refused to allow them in my games, for a couple of years after the Night of Elves. (It was back in 2e, and I had eight players playing seven-and-a-half elves, ranging from every subrace available in the Complete Book of Elves.)
I surprised my gaming group-- we're starting an epic-level Planescape game, and I decided to play an admiral of the Elven Armada.
Problem is, elves are almost never portrayed consistently with how they are described.
They're supposedly Chaotic, but they have centuries-old, inflexible tradition and often absolute monarchs. They're supposedly Good, but there are many, many examples of elven settlements that'll kill adventurers simply for venturing too close to their camp-- and heaven forbid the lowly humans ask them for help! They're supposedly charismatic, inspiring, and intoxicating, but they're usually arrogant, condescending, and standoffish.
Then, there's the six billion elf subraces. Yes, I hate the dwarven subraces, too, and the gnomish subraces, and the halfing subraces-- but the elves started it. Some of those subraces, too, just don't make any sense and were seemingly designed to make them perfectly suited to a specific class.
Mechanically, it bothers me that there's no real support for them being "more magical" than humans, though they're supposed to be. It bothers me that there's no mechanical support for their other-worldly beauty or for their supposed powers of persuasion. It really bothers me that there's an elven subrace which is just as strong as a half-orc, despite being five feet tall and thin.
I've fixed the mechanical problems in my own games, by changing their stat mods, their Favored Class (Favored Gestalt, actually), and banning the subraces. But there's nothing I can do for their lousy portrayals in so many works of fiction. I'm trying to learn to play them better in my games, though.
I voted Hate. There was a time when I refused to play elves and refused to allow them in my games, for a couple of years after the Night of Elves. (It was back in 2e, and I had eight players playing seven-and-a-half elves, ranging from every subrace available in the Complete Book of Elves.)
I surprised my gaming group-- we're starting an epic-level Planescape game, and I decided to play an admiral of the Elven Armada.
Problem is, elves are almost never portrayed consistently with how they are described.
They're supposedly Chaotic, but they have centuries-old, inflexible tradition and often absolute monarchs. They're supposedly Good, but there are many, many examples of elven settlements that'll kill adventurers simply for venturing too close to their camp-- and heaven forbid the lowly humans ask them for help! They're supposedly charismatic, inspiring, and intoxicating, but they're usually arrogant, condescending, and standoffish.
Then, there's the six billion elf subraces. Yes, I hate the dwarven subraces, too, and the gnomish subraces, and the halfing subraces-- but the elves started it. Some of those subraces, too, just don't make any sense and were seemingly designed to make them perfectly suited to a specific class.
Mechanically, it bothers me that there's no real support for them being "more magical" than humans, though they're supposed to be. It bothers me that there's no mechanical support for their other-worldly beauty or for their supposed powers of persuasion. It really bothers me that there's an elven subrace which is just as strong as a half-orc, despite being five feet tall and thin.
I've fixed the mechanical problems in my own games, by changing their stat mods, their Favored Class (Favored Gestalt, actually), and banning the subraces. But there's nothing I can do for their lousy portrayals in so many works of fiction. I'm trying to learn to play them better in my games, though.
Viktyr Gehrig
First Post
Afrodyte said:
Interesting idea. I just added +2 Charisma and -2 Strength to their ability adjustments and made their Favored Gestalt Ranger/Bard. Oh, and gave them free proficiency in Bows. (They're on their own for Rapier or for the Elven Thinblade, but they easily have the proficiencies for it with Ranger.)
Two spellcasting classes (one of the few races that has two casting classes in their FG), a bonus to their casting stat (balanced by the fact that it's not quite a full caster), which is also Charisma. Also helps justify the Half-Elves social skill bonuses.
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