Enervation and criticals?

[Scion]

I did a bit of a search, but things seemed confused.

Does enervation double on a crit? Everything I've seen from official sources says yes, but I might have missed something. Can anyone give a clear and concise reason?

 

[Chronosome]

Well, it may be a ranged attack spell, but there's no damage being dealt. A target just gains 1d4 negative levels.

So, I'd say a confident "no".

I'm curious--what sources say yes?

EDIT: Meeza dumb. All that's wrong. See below posts.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Tome and Blood uses Enervation as an example, and notes that on a Crit it deals 2d4 negative levels.

It defines "damage" as hit point damage, ability damage, or negative levels; any of these things are doubled on a critical with a "weaponlike spell".

A weaponlike spell is a spell that a/ has an attack roll, and b/ deals damage (as defined above).

-Hyp.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Would it be correct to assume that it's considered damage (ie crittable) when the effect can stack with itself, and a penalty (ie non-crittable) when the effect doesn't stack with itself?

AR

 

[Hypersmurf]

Would it be correct to assume that it's considered damage (ie crittable) when the effect can stack with itself, and a penalty (ie non-crittable) when the effect doesn't stack with itself?

It looks like a decent rule of thumb, but that's not how it's defined... so keep an eye out for weird exceptions

-Hyp.

 

[Chronosome]

I sit corrected.

 

[Scion]

T&B is the main source i was talking about yes

Thanks all, I really like the 'stack = crit, doesnt stack = no crit'. Is this fairly universal? are there any exceptions?


Edit: lol.. multiple posts while I am typing up mine

 

[Hypersmurf]

Meeza dumb. All that's wrong. See below posts.

Well, now, don't be too hasty

You see, pre-Tome and Blood, this wasn't spelled out. While it states under the description of Energy Drain that energy drain special attacks inflict double negative levels on a critical, that passage doesn't apply to spells; and if you'd taken a poll pre-T&B as to how many DMs thought you could deal Sneak Attack damage along with Enervation, I'd guess most would have said "No".

Tome and Blood also changed - not clarified, but changed - the rules for Sharing Spells with a familiar, for example.

So a 3.5 DM might quite fairly say "Tome and Blood rules don't apply to 3.5, and you can only crit with a spell that deals hit point damage."

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

are there any exceptions?

Nothing springs to mind.

I'm trying to think if there's any spell that inflicts a stackable penalty to speed, or something - which would fit the rule, but which shouldn't be crittable. But I'm not coming up with any off the top of my head.

-Hyp.

 

[Chronosome]

Well, now, don't be too hasty...

You speak true, sir. Meeza not so dumb, den!