Enter The Brainstorm: Hellenic Western

[Simulated Sanity]

[Also posted verbatim at rpg.net. The more ideas the better.]

Hi.

I'm attempting to turn a setting brainfart into a... uh... brainpoop? Your comments and contributions would be most appreciated.

The brainfart in question is a fusion of Classical Greece and the American Wild West into a dark anachronistic phantasmagoria, out of time and place and content to stay there. I've decided on the mid to late 5th century B.C. Greek world, which I'll take wholesale and dress up in the Revisionist Western sub-genre - a mongrel of, say, Herodotus' Histories and HBO's Deadwood.

My initial visualization was of a Spartan gunslinger with venerated Hephaestus* revolvers (faded red lambda etched on each handle) sacrificing a dog to Ares before a duel. Spartans (not unlike Roland of Gilead) are expert with a gun, trained from birth. I imagine the elite caste (spartiate?) as gunslingers. Thanatos himself would think twice before coming for a gunslinger of Sparta. *A prominent firearms manufacturing company? Wink, wink.

Thoughts:

• For the essential frontier atmosphere, the setting will focus on Greek colonies of the northern Black Sea littoral - Olbia, Theodosia, Chersonesos, The Bosporan Kingdom, etc - and the interaction between colonists, merchants, slavers, pirates, and indigenous tribes. Ah... so that aforementioned Spartan gunslinger would have to be an exile (neodamodeis? hypomeiones?), to be roaming the frontier.

• The Scythians (who, oddly enough, also practiced scalping) and other peoples described by Herodotus north of the Black Sea (Tauri pirates, lycanthropic Neuri, Androphagi cannibals, Greeks 'gone native' called Gelonians, etc) are analogous to Native Americans.

• The major city-states (Athens, Corinth, Thebes, etc) are off screen, so to speak, but I envision them as Greek flavored Gangs Of New York (except Sparta). Like Herbert Asbury, I am drawn to the seedier aspects of societies - there will be slavery, prostitution, sacrifice, opium, entheogenic Kykeon, gambling on Pankration fights, etc.

• The Peloponnesian War analogous to the American Civil War.

• Worship of the Greek pantheon remains the same* - animal sacrifice, orgiastic rites, etc. Temples replace churches as the iconic buildings of choice in this weird western.

*Although, tired of Polytheism, I did have an idea for a Trinity of a Good god (word is he has no name), a Bad god (the eyes of an angel), and an Ugly god to supplant the pantheon (the moribund gods of which then become npcs living normal lives [Hades is an undertaker, Dionysus a saloon owner, etc.] perhaps plotting to overthrow the Trinity - inspired by American Gods)... but I kinda went off the idea.​

Note: This idea was improved upon greatly by Khereva in the rpg.net thread – check it out! I'll definitely be working the variation in, as a religious schism of the Pontic Greeks or something.​

• I am uncertain about how to add fantasy elements, if any. Do I want, for example, double-barreled sawn-off shotgun wielding satyrs? I like the image, but I don't know. I like the idea of reinterpreting Greek mythology too, similar to what O Brother, Where Art Thou? did with The Odyssey. Examples: the Amazons could be a posse of female bandits, Medusa and her two sisters could be traveling snake-dancers from Libya, and so forth. I don't know, what do you think? My indecisiveness is criminal.

• System? Setting first, my dear.

I hope these nascent thoughts are coherent enough, because I [was] dead tired.

Questions: Would you like a sip of my milkshake? Does the setting interest you? What would you change? Do you have any cool ideas, characters, and so on to add? Has this been done before? Is that a Hephaestus Peacemaker in your pocket or are you just eager to reply?



Thanks guys,
Sim.

P.S. Here are some maps for reference: a cool (albeit crooked) stylized map of the known world as seen by Herodotus, a map showing the indigenous tribes of the region, and a map showing the settlements on the northern Black Sea coast.

 

[Piratecat]

This is going to seem unaccessible to a lot of people (it's hard for a layman like me to master the setting background), but it's the coolest thing I've heard in ages.

To me, the biggest risk is that you as DM would be so enamored of the setting that it might stray into mental masturbation: a really cool setting for its own sake, without good adventures to go along with it.

Still, if you could pull it off I'd jump to play in this game. I'd suggest a system like Grim Tales or Sidewinder Recoiled for it, but you'll have a challenge making the system rules match the setting you have in your head.

 

[Huw]

You mentioned the Scythians. How about including the Caucasians and Kartvelians? I've read John Colarusso's "Nart Sagas from the Caucasus", and a lot of the tales have a very wild west feel. Lots of horses, cattle rustling and a tribal gathering which has some similarities with the western American potlatch. It might give you some additional inspiration.

 

[Simulated Sanity]

Piratecat: Thanks. Inaccessibility... yeah, I hope even a smidgen of familiarity with both the (fairly recognizable) periods will give people a little ground to stand on before I one-two punch them off it - just enough for them to process a fusion of the two. But, of course, if various setting details (and nudge-nudge, wink-wink references) go right over their heads, instead of the specific Hellenic Western I envision, they'd just have a gritty fantasy-western with Hellenic flavor in their minds, and I can live with that.

I have some embryonic ideas for adventures, using and abusing a mixture of Western and Homeric themes as metaphors/meta-narratives, churning a lovechild of the two into its own beast, but I'll get the setting (merely a fetus) down pat first and see where it takes me. Not all ideas are good rpg ideas, after all.

Huw: Thanks for the recommendation.

Keep'em comments a-commin'.

 

[Agent Oracle]

Heh, I've heard of spaghetti westers, but never a Gyro Western.

On a side note, i just picked up the "cyber/steampunk" Etherscope, which stinks of mental masturbation, It's a great setting, up to a point, specificly, the Titular Etherscope, where the setting is greatly detailed, perhaps Over detailed, but i'll be darned if there's anything that you can do with it. But I digress.

Okay, how's by this;

-Include light fantasy elements, Imagine the gorgon sisters going on a rampage, staring men down just so they can get their jollies. Old Man Minos has been cattle-rustling again, and his son's in on it this time. Or what if the very active greek pantheon showed up as regular figures.

I'm sure anyone could get behind sacrificing a dog to ares if they recieved a real in-game boost from divine magics.

 

[Land Outcast]

HUm... aspects of the gods would definetely be walking here and there everyso often...

Sacrifices... sweet.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Some random thoughts:

1) It occurs to me that the space-western Firefly has similarities to the Oddysey- the travels, the adventures, danger in every port...

2) Some of the things that shaped the American West were railroads, range wars (farmers vs ranchers), and wiping out the indegenes. With the periodic conflicts between the various city states, you've got a reasonable substitute for the conflicts between Native Americans and the advancing Europeans.

However, the range wars and railroads were economic struggles (that sometimes involved gunfire)- you'll need a substitute for them.

3) Another major force in shaping the American West were mineral and lumber resources...magic and such could shift the drive for exotic minerals to the sea and below...but lumber?

 

[Piratecat]

SS, see if you can get ahold of Robert Graves's book "Hercules, My Shipmate." The book is about Jason and the Argonauts and the hunt for the Golden Fleece. The first 30 pages are crazy-dry, but then Hercules shows up and you realize that it's secretly a comedy. It seems to me that this would provide some great campaign tidbits -- the Argonauts are a lot like gunfighters, drifting into town and laying waste before drifting on again.

 

[Huw]

But, of course, if various setting details (and nudge-nudge, wink-wink references) go right over their heads, instead of the specific Hellenic Western I envision, they'd just have a gritty fantasy-western with Hellenic flavor in their minds, and I can live with that.

Didn't hurt Rokugan. 10% Japanese, 10% Chinese, 80% generic fantasy. Accessible to all, yet still felt different.

Huw: Thanks for the recommendation.

No problem. I like looking at relatively obscure mythologies and cultures for inspiration. I've got Scythians in my campaign too, and a mountainous region resembling the Caucasus.

 

[Simulated Sanity]

Awesome, guys.

Agent Orange: Gyro Western... hehehe. Yeah, I'm leaning towards downplaying the mythological aspects, walking towards the lite (fantasy), so to speak. Although...

(Beware The Babbler!)

I love me some satyr – I've been re-reading the novels of China Mieville, so I have a mental picture of satyrs overpopulating cities due to their highly sexual natures, never far from a bar or brothel, their slums swarming up hills like favelas - which leads me in yet another direction, that of keeping only three mythological 'races' - satyr, centaur, and *gulp* minotaur (despite being singular) - to uneasily coexist with humanity. These three because they not only complement each other (aesthetically, at least) but also the Western atmosphere, where equine and bovine elements played an important part. I could even add a horror element in the results of interspecies sex... because, you know... when in Hellas. Picture a fetus in a jar with horns, hooves, and hair in all the wrong places. Unique, horribly grotesque beings not meant for the world. Most are dead at, die during, or are slain soon after birth, but not all.

Uh.

Damn you, Mieville!

But I don't know, once again all over the place. Partially due to always working the idea while tired, but mostly because I'm an indecisive git. I'll never get anywhere if I don't choose my road. Woe! Woe!

Anyway...

Regarding sacrifice, animals sacred to a particular god were sacrificed to them - horses sacrificed to Poseidon, roosters to Hermes, etc. Spartans sacrificed dogs to Ares because his favorite animal was the dog. So, although quite disturbing to us, it was an ordinary practice. I can definitely see sacrifices giving a bonus to players.

Dannyalcatraz: I have, regrettably, never seen a single episode of Firefly. Perhaps I should? Anyway, range wars and conflict with the indigenous tribes is a given, but railroads I haven't really thought about yet. Also, the northern Black Sea area and lands beyond were auriferous (gold rush), and there are many great forests to exploit between the plains. Greece itself was probably deforested at this time.

Piratecat: Will do, thanks.

Huw: Yeah, me too. The Scyths of the area I'm focusing on were surprisingly wealthy, due to their control of the slave trade - 'barbarians' from the north destined for servitude in mainland Greece via the colonial ports. I was also surprised to learn they practiced scalping:

"The Scythian soldier scrapes the scalp clean of flesh and, softening it by rubbing between the hands, uses it thenceforth as a napkin. The Scyth is proud of these scalps and hangs them from his bridle rein; the greater the number of such napkins that a man can show, the more highly is he esteemed among them. Many make themselves cloaks by sewing a quantity of these scalps together." - Herodotus.​

There just has to be a Scythian character with a cloak of scalps, and a character scalped by Scythians as a child. I'll have to read Blood Meridian again to get some inspiration on 'white' scalp-hunters, too.

Thanks again.

Any more thoughts on... anything?

Spew forth your comments, let this thread be your bucket and/or toilet.