Enterprise 10-30-02

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

When you complain about stereotypic races, you forget something:
Startrek is - in it`s heart - about exploring mankind, human behaviour, human possibilities, human development. It is not really about alien creatures and civilizations. They are used to present an alternative human, or an aspect of humans.

Yes, sometimes they tell science fictions stories that are not purely based on this concept, but usually, the stories are exactly used for it.

But anyway, the stereotypic races aren`t as stereotypic as some of you suggest.
Martok, Worf, Duras, Gowron were very distinct Klingon Characters. Everyone of them was a fighter, but they also had different attitudes.
Spock and Tuvok are quite different. Both of them were logical, but Spock was a Scientist, Tuvok was a Security Chief! There was a Vulcan character that followed a Isolitionist Group that plotted to use a powerful psionic artifact to gain control about vulcan, there was a Vulcan Maguis Figther (DS9).

Quark, Rom, Nog, Quark´s Mother, his short-time girlfriend (that disguised herself as man), Brunt, the Great Nagus Zek, they all had their own personalities.

Most races started stereotypic. But hey, if you don`t know a French or Englisch person, you do only know the stereotype.
For must klingons, humans will obviosuly also be very stereotype - weak, always trying to talk things out instead of using action - Though there are plenty "exceptions" of this stereotype...

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Ocampa - Beyond Kes you see Ocampa in maybe 3 other epsiodes and learn little or nothing about the people.

Telaxians - Same as the Ocampa, you have one token member of the crew and beyond that you are lucky to see 4 others in the entire show besides the one episode that focused on them.

Bajorans - Perfect example, a people who almsot universally worship act and dress the same way. The only expception turned out to be a disguised Cardassian and an insane murderer.

Species 842 - They were invaders from the start. The impression given was that they had not attacked before now was only because they had never been given an indication that there was others to fight. I seem to remember it being stated that 842 had wiped out all other species within Fluidic Space.

Dude, you're just being silly. I think you just throw out these generalizations without examining the actual cases, then defend them out of habit. Tell ya what, go through the episode guide and point out the races introduced, then make your case, please. Start with... (Pardon any bad spelling, please.) Telaxians? Ocompa? Wasn't there a Bejoran murderer on one episode? Species 842 (#?) from liquidic space turned out to originally be defender their alt space, then switched back to invaders, right? [/B]

 

[JacktheRabbit]

You missed my point. sure characters might have different personalities but races are always the same. All Klingons focus on hand to hand combat, honor, and howling at the moon. The only different one Worf's son gets ridiculed for being different. All Ferengi are money grubbers, heck their entire culture is based around the "Rules of Acquisition".

The race with the closest thing to variety to it is Vulcans. In an Enterprise episode you encounter a group of Vulcans who have given up logic and are learning to live with their emotions. Even then by the end of the episode those vulcans are condemned as dangerous and delusional.

As a complete aside I noticed something in the last time travel episode. It is obvious that in the Enterprise series the vulcans do not have their mental (psionic) powers that Spock and later Vulcans demonstrate. T'Pol though does in this episode for what I think is the first time demonstrates the Vulcan Nerve Pinch. I always thought this had to be more of a mental trick than a physical one since the odds of every species including the Shape Changing Sulliban having the same physical weakness in the same spot on their shoulder is low enough to be near impossible.

So was this a minor mistake in the show letting her do the nerve pinch?

When you complain about stereotypic races, you forget something:
Startrek is - in it`s heart - about exploring mankind, human behaviour, human possibilities, human development. It is not really about alien creatures and civilizations. They are used to present an alternative human, or an aspect of humans.

Yes, sometimes they tell science fictions stories that are not purely based on this concept, but usually, the stories are exactly used for it.

But anyway, the stereotypic races aren`t as stereotypic as some of you suggest.
Martok, Worf, Duras, Gowron were very distinct Klingon Characters. Everyone of them was a fighter, but they also had different attitudes.
Spock and Tuvok are quite different. Both of them were logical, but Spock was a Scientist, Tuvok was a Security Chief! There was a Vulcan character that followed a Isolitionist Group that plotted to use a powerful psionic artifact to gain control about vulcan, there was a Vulcan Maguis Figther (DS9).

Quark, Rom, Nog, Quark´s Mother, his short-time girlfriend (that disguised herself as man), Brunt, the Great Nagus Zek, they all had their own personalities.

Most races started stereotypic. But hey, if you don`t know a French or Englisch person, you do only know the stereotype.
For must klingons, humans will obviosuly also be very stereotype - weak, always trying to talk things out instead of using action - Though there are plenty "exceptions" of this stereotype...

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[John Crichton]

The race with the closest thing to variety to it is Vulcans. In an Enterprise episode you encounter a group of Vulcans who have given up logic and are learning to live with their emotions. Even then by the end of the episode those vulcans are condemned as dangerous and delusional.

I didn't think it was all of them, just the one that tried to mind-rape T'Pol. I thought that ep was a great example of diversity.

But, on the entire issue of Trek racial diversity: Most of the different major races (at least in TOS) were basically just humans that represented our different cultures (present day Russians, Americans, etc.) the only difference being that they looked different from us (or concept races, but that's another story). And Trek has continued that trend over the years. They weren't trying to create races wholly different than our own.

Is it a bit tired? I guess that depends on the individual viewer. Personally, I liked Farscape's approach on racial diversity the best but Trek and Farscape are two different animals.


And it's true that Trek has changed its approach over the many years. Stereotypes have run rampant and many of the races have gotten stale. It's bound to happen with a franchise that has been around for so long (over 500 individual eps!). Personally, I'm a tad annoyed every time they meet a new bipedal, oxygen-breathing species that looks just like a human with either bumps on it's head or an extra eye or tenticals or something. But, I take it with a grain of salt because I usually end up entertained in the end which is all that really matter anyway.

Originally posted by DocMoriartty
As a complete aside I noticed something in the last time travel episode. It is obvious that in the Enterprise series the vulcans do not have their mental (psionic) powers that Spock and later Vulcans demonstrate. T'Pol though does in this episode for what I think is the first time demonstrates the Vulcan Nerve Pinch. I always thought this had to be more of a mental trick than a physical one since the odds of every species including the Shape Changing Sulliban having the same physical weakness in the same spot on their shoulder is low enough to be near impossible.

So was this a minor mistake in the show letting her do the nerve pinch?

Naw, see previous comment about the mind-meld. Mental powers still in tact.

Although, you bring up an interesting point about the pinch. I never thought of it as a mental thing!

 

[JacktheRabbit]

It has to be a mental ability. How else could it work on so many different races. Especially since it also worked on the Suliban who are heavily genetically modified to the point that they can squish themselves flat as a pancake and easily survive in the vacuum of space.

And yes I realize that technically Human, Klingon, Vulcan, and Romulan are all actually the same species since they can interbreed.

Naw, see previous comment about the mind-meld. Mental powers still in tact.

Although, you bring up an interesting point about the pinch. I never thought of it as a mental thing!

 

[Richards]

Actually, one of the things I like about the Star Trek Universe is that they have explained just why it is that the overwhelming majority of sentient lifeforms look so similar - apparently the first intelligent race to evolve was basically humanoid in shape, and they went out into the Universe "seeding" all of the planets capable of supporting life. That simple fact explains away not only why so many species look so similar but also why so many of them can interbreed.

SInce Star Trek has gone out of the way to make this one of the "entering arguments" of how its Universe works, I'm not bothered at all when the next set of aliens looks pretty much like human beings with funny foreheads or weird ears. In fact, it works quite the opposite with me: when I read a Star Trek novel, it actually bothers me when the alien race encountered is a telekinetic flying dolphin or a six-armed furry giant. It shatters the illusion that the images I'm creating in my head as I read the novel are supposed to be taking place in the Star Trek Universe.

Johnathan

 

[Napftor]

...when the alien race encountered is a telekinetic flying dolphin...
Johnathan

ROFLMAO!

 

[Eternalknight]

That is not diversity. Everyone you mentioned pretty well gets ridiculed by the rest of his race for being different from the rest of them.

Hmmm. Sounds like us humans to me!

Oh, and just 'coz I like correcting people, it's Species 8472

 

[Mark]

Hmmm. Sounds like us humans to me!

Oh, and just 'coz I like correcting people, it's Species 8472

Thanks (for both comments.)

 

[Mark]

Enterprise - Marauders

Archer and Trip visit an alien colony seeking deuterium fuel, but their suspicions are aroused when the planet's drillers prove reluctant to deal with them. Aboard Enterprise, Mayweather's sensors detect an approaching Klingon vessel.

From the previews I've seen, it looks like we'll be seeing lots of hand-to-hand combat with Klingons!

Here's what they're rerunning this week...