D&D 5E (2024) Epic Boons Ranking

[Clint_L]

So… the number of big fights per day was brought up, but it seems we came to opposite conclusions …

Recovery gives two effects that work just once per long rest. It has been argued (cogently, I would say) that the size of these two benefits is a bit bigger than what Fortitude gives. I think this is true, and it favors Recovery in the context of a single big fight.

Fortitude, on the other hand, provides two benefits that are "passive", or always on. It raises your max HP (though by less than what Recovery would provide in one shot), and it gives the (arguably minor) ribbon of increasing the efficacy of healing. It is argued that the improved healing is minor because in the heat of battle, you benefit more from spending one (or as few as possible) discrete action(s) to get as much HPs healed as possible, and in that context the Fortitude bonus is a small fraction of the total healing you get. Whereas during downtime you can use lesser forms of healing spread out over many actions, each of which dole out the little extra bonus. All in all, the passive Fortitude benefits are therefore lesser in the context of one big fight compared to the expendable Recovery benefits.

My point was, however, that if we make the assumption that at epic levels there is plenty of healing available during downtime (both with and without short rests), then the number of big fights per day affects the balance of power between the two boons.

Fortitude’s always on passive benefits not only increases healing efficiency such that the downtime has a greater likelihood of bringing the character back to full health, but importantly, the raised ceiling of max HP can therefore be replenished multiple times per day. This means you can get into multiple big fights with those extra HPs in the tank (assuming you had at least a little bit of downtime between them, though not even necessarily as much as a short rest).

My big criticism of Fortitude is that it isn't much better than Tough, which is an entry-level feat. Doesn't seem properly EPIC. Whereas recovery will definitely give you a huge moment when it kicks in. It's most likely to be taken by a frontline warrior, so when you are fighting an ancient dragon or something and the paladin goes down...only to surge back to their feet at half HP, that would be properly EPIC.

When I look at the list of Epic Boons, that's what I'm asking myself: does it feel properly epic? (And also, is it good?)

On the other hand, Irresistable Offence would definitely offer some epic moments but I think it is very weak overall, so maybe I'm just full of it, or at least woefully inconsistent.

 

[Silam]

My big criticism of Fortitude is that it isn't much better than Tough, which is an entry-level feat. Doesn't seem properly EPIC.

That's fair, although it may also be fair to ask whether Fortitude is not sufficiently stronger than Tough, or Tough is too close to the strength of an Epic Boon ...

In any case, the way I see it, a character who's general theme is toughness should probably have both Tough and Fortitude (and maybe even Recovery too, if they multi-classed in just the right way...!). Since neither of these feats are repeatable, if you're already Tough, then Fortitude is the next logical milestone on the journey to Toughness Paragon... And if you're lugging such a fat HP cauldron around, maybe the bonus to healing is an economic necessity, lest the party Cleric ditches you for being too healing hungry ...

Whereas recovery will definitely give you a huge moment when it kicks in. It's most likely to be taken by a frontline warrior, so when you are fighting an ancient dragon or something and the paladin goes down...only to surge back to their feet at half HP, that would be properly EPIC.

When I look at the list of Epic Boons, that's what I'm asking myself: does it feel properly epic? (And also, is it good?)

Again, I think that's fair. Passive abilities in general aren't very dramatic. I wouldn't fault anyone for thinking they don't "feel epic". But as for whether they're good, that's more of a quantitative question, and answering the question involves understanding the framing... hence why the number of big battles per day is a critical factor, no matter how much maths and theory crafting ruin the epic mood

 

[saviirkad]

Dimensional Travel: after taking the magic or attack action, you may immediately teleport up to 30 feet to an unoccupied space you can see. "A" tier for any class. This is just incredibly valuable in so many situations. And fun!

In the final fight against the BBEG, it came down to our sorceress facing him down on her lonesome. She threw absolutely everything at this guy, but by the end of her turn he was left standing with 2 HP.

I'd explained before that the BBEG's ritual would finish if he got his next turn. At this point, his fate was sealed, but if the ritual goes off, the consequences will far outlive him. This turn was their absolute last chance to stop him, and he was left at 2 HP. Her actions, reactions and bonus actions were consumed.

And then a player pointed out that she had taken the Dimensional Travel boon, and it took no actions. And she was in range to teleport above the BBEG.

With 3d6 falling damage split between the two of them, all she had to do was not roll three 1s. She rolled a 1, a 1, and a 2.

And that is how our BBEG got taken out by the sorceress throwing the people's elbow from the top ropes, disrupting the ritual.

Best boon ever.

 

[Silam]

In the final fight against the BBEG, it came down to our sorceress facing him down on her lonesome. She threw absolutely everything at this guy, but by the end of her turn he was left standing with 2 HP.

I'd explained before that the BBEG's ritual would finish if he got his next turn. At this point, his fate was sealed, but if the ritual goes off, the consequences will far outlive him. This turn was their absolute last chance to stop him, and he was left at 2 HP. Her actions, reactions and bonus actions were consumed.

And then a player pointed out that she had taken the Dimensional Travel boon, and it took no actions. And she was in range to teleport above the BBEG.

With 3d6 falling damage split between the two of them, all she had to do was not roll three 1s. She rolled a 1, a 1, and a 2.

And that is how our BBEG got taken out by the sorceress throwing the people's elbow from the top ropes, disrupting the ritual.

Best boon ever.

Wow. And then she had really thrown absolutely everything at this guy

 

[Clint_L]

That's exactly what I mean, though - an epic boon shouldn't just be "good," it should have potential for that "wow factor."