D&D 5E Epic Levels 21-30 (please help/give thoughts)

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

So, I have started making a my own homebrew system from gaining levels beyond level 20. I have currently mostly completed 4 subclasses, and the document below has a link to the physical version of this. I haven't finished transferring them from my physical copy to this version, and am making minor adjustments when I do so, but I currently have the Artificer and most of the Paladin in this document:

Epic Levels: Artificer, Paladin, Warlock

No description.

homebrewery.naturalcrit.com

(I had a minor setback yesterday, I finished the Paladin completely, but there was a problem with saving it, so the class was lost. I am currently still catching up with putting the features in the document, but will be updating it daily.)

So, what do you think? Any comments or thoughts on the abilities? It's taken me awhile to figure out how powerful I would like all of the classes to be at level 30, but they should be the equivalent of a demigod in the current version, maybe a bit more powerful.

I would appreciate any feedback that I can get, and I am mainly doing this so I have a system I'm satisfied with for my own table. Feel free to use it if you like it, as it is still in the development phase.

 

[Eyes of Nine]

So, I have started making a my own homebrew system from gaining levels beyond level 20. I have currently mostly completed 4 subclasses, and the document below has a link to the physical version of this. I haven't finished transferring them from my physical copy to this version, and am making minor adjustments when I do so, but I currently have the Artificer and most of the Paladin in this document:

Epic Levels: Artificer, Paladin, Warlock

No description.

homebrewery.naturalcrit.com

(I had a minor setback yesterday, I finished the Paladin completely, but there was a problem with saving it, so the class was lost. I am currently still catching up with putting the features in the document, but will be updating it daily.)

So, what do you think? Any comments or thoughts on the abilities? It's taken me awhile to figure out how powerful I would like all of the classes to be at level 30, but they should be the equivalent of a demigod in the current version, maybe a bit more powerful.

I would appreciate any feedback that I can get, and I am mainly doing this so I have a system I'm satisfied with for my own table. Feel free to use it if you like it, as it is still in the development phase.

Don't know much about Artificer (still haven't read Eberron yet).

For the Paladin, only a few comments:
Glorious Champion: I'd let them be a Fiend as well as a Celestial. Just to cover you know, anti-paladins.

Improved Fighting Style Protection seems pretty strong - Auto fail an attack once per turn on an ally. But maybe I have to shift my thinking from 1-20 levels, and go big!

Most of these seem like iterations on already existing powers, just adding range, or quantity of uses. Maybe that's how the PHB 1-20 levels go too; and the special stuff is in the Sacred Oath feats.

 

[Krachek]

All depends on what gonna be level 10, 11, 12,... spells .

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Glorious Champion: I'd let them be a Fiend as well as a Celestial. Just to cover you know, anti-paladins.

Yep, I'll add that. Should I have it be based on alignment, or just the player's choice?
Oathbreakers at level 30 will become undead, though, just for the theme.

Improved Fighting Style Protection seems pretty strong - Auto fail an attack once per turn on an ally. But maybe I have to shift my thinking from 1-20 levels, and go big!

Yes, it's meant to be strong. I've developed a few of the other classes so far, and it's powerful, but definitely not the craziest thing that they'll get. It's just an autofail on one attack, and at this level, most villains should have many attacks in a turn, so it's going to be balanced. Thanks for the concern.

Most of these seem like iterations on already existing powers, just adding range, or quantity of uses. Maybe that's how the PHB 1-20 levels go too; and the special stuff is in the Sacred Oath feats.

Yes, that's mainly what I'm doing. I'm not expanding on what the base classes can do, they just get better at their abilities. The subclasses will get more specific and unique features.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

All depends on what gonna be level 10, 11, 12,... spells .

Yeah. I'm waiting to delve down that hole, probably after I develop all the classes. I know I'm going to include some spells from previous editions (Proctiv's Move Mountain, Karsus's Avatar, etc) but will also include some other spells around the same in power.

There's definitely going to be heavy restrictions, though. The 10th, 11th, and 12th level spell slots for Wizards, Clerics, etc will probably be mostly used for upcasting 8th-9th level spells.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Any specific reviews of features? What do you think of the Alchemist's Hazardous Brew, or The Master Becoming for Warlocks, etc?

 

[dave2008]

Quick question: I didn't see anything in the document saying you could go above 20 with an ability score. So does the general cap of 20 still exist?

Right now these seem like extensions of the base classes, which personally doesn't feel epic to me. I am mean what makes it epic if it is just more of the same?

When you mentioned you didn't like how didn't like the items on the DMsGuild that did the same thing (Epic Options, Epic Characters, & Epic Rules), I assumed you were going to make something different. But this seems to just be a variant of the same idea. Perhaps I am thinking of someone else, but I thought you were going to make something like epic prestige classes, which sounds more interesting to me.

 

[NotAYakk]

What is your underlying math?

5e assumes each block of 4-5 levels or so gives the same amount of oomph. This is part of what makes 5e multiclassing work.

If you are increasing the oomph per level, then you break multiclassing.

In essence, a level 30 barbarian or fighter needs to be compared against a level 10 barbarian/level 20 fighter.

Build crazy L30 multiclass builds and use it as your balance target.

Paladin 6/Hexblade 3/Gloom 3/Whispers 18.

A level 30 paladin could be comparible to that.

One you have a few such baselines, getting the rest of the balance is easier.

Alternatively, you could decide a level 30 PC is power-equivalent to a level 20 fighter/level 20 barbarian. (The CR math supports this). That epic level multiclassing gives two sub-20 levels of features, or one post-20.

That gives a different balance point, and gives you more room to play with power-wise. An epic 30 PC is equivalent to a L20 Fighter/Barbaian for example, or Paladin 20/Hex 3/Gloom 3/Assassin 3/Whispers 11.

All of this also puts ceilings on above-9 level spell power as well.

 

[plisnithus8]

We’ve enjoyedplaying the last few months using 2CGamng’s Epic Legacy & Campaign Codex for 20+ levels.

 

[mordenkainendogpissbeer]

Have you considered having the characters ascend into immortals / gods?

Start them out as Level 1 gods.