[EPIC] Out of Character II (No more slots!)

Lichtenhart · Feb 4, 2003

CS, I finally finished my char. I'm waiting for your approval and an opening to catch up with Rearden.

Also, if you don't want Resurrection to be available, can we trade that for a Heal?

Victim · Feb 4, 2003

No Shadow Blows?!!! Wow. Now I think my character is sucky.

Maybe I could revise my character. Otherwise, Jaren would just slow Rhazael down. I'm almost embarassed to ask about it, but what do you think of the Shiba Protector (or whatever the Phoenix Clan class is) from OA.

Sollir Furryfoot · Feb 4, 2003

Is the Paragon template ok at +12 ECL?

I'm thinking about playing a LN Paragon Dwarven Fighter 6/Monk 1/Dwarven Thane 5 (Based off of WarCraft III, in a dragon issue, I can type it up) - ECL 22 -

Edit-Do I smell the possibility of Sollir's first up close and personal melee character? Btw Dalamar, if I go this route, I wouldn't suppose you'd be interested in grouping with me?

Victim · Feb 5, 2003

+12 for Paragon? Using the formula on the website that most of the ECLs are on, I came up with over a +20 adjustment. Without accounting for the magnitude of paragon abilities when compared to normal fast healing and DR. But I'd take paragon for +12.

Neither of archmages has skill focus: spellcraft. Also, Sulli and Jemal might want to look at the saving throws on their characters. A huge Resistance bonus to saves isn't really optional, especially without back up around.

Of course, I haven't seen any updates on the IC thread lately. Any discussion of characters might be a moot point.

Sollir Furryfoot · Feb 6, 2003

+12 ECL is semi-official, considering the mindflayer ECL, the website is just a fan-thing, and while accurate at lower level games, I believe in a thread the system's creator, Soladrin, mentioned that things get really messy when trying to apply it to epic type creatures.

Victim · Feb 6, 2003

I'm not seeing +12. The CR for a paragon mindflayer is 22, but the ECL is 26. Mindflayers are a +10 adjustment, if I'm looking at the right thing. So the adjustment for the template looks like +16.

In any case, I hate the ECL adjustments for templates. In most cases, a level 1 + template character isn't equivalent to a normal equivalent character. However, toss many levels later, the balance swings the other way. For example, a level 16 half dragon fighter will be generally equivalent a 20th level fighter in terms of HP and other level dependent effects, but will do more damage, have extra stat boosts, etc. Almost all the penalties are gone, but most of the benefits remain. Given the massive Con boosts and extra HP granted by the paragon, I'd say that it quickly reaches the point where the benefits far outweigh the costs. Of course, that might be obvious simply because of your desire to play one.

Sollir Furryfoot · Feb 6, 2003

I may perhaps decide not to do the dwarf if the general consensus is that may be too powerful. But let me note, you're comparing two completely different systems, the most official ECL so far for a Mindflayer (outside of Savage Species, which I don't have myself) is +18, from the Dragon issue with the ECLs on races. Making the ECL +8, which is too low, however, a compromise, and much more reasonable ECL is +12 for a Paragon.

Janos Audron · Feb 6, 2003

Mind Flayer: +18
Paragon: +12

And you have never wondered how bad a Mind Flayer sucked, and how the Paragon template ruled? I cannot believe you think these are correct ECLs.

Gurdjieff · Feb 6, 2003

Cream, posted this on page 2 as well, but no answer =]

About Speed enhancement on armors (Always hasted), you allow it? And as a +how much?

Frenzied Beserker [MotW] allowed?

Helm of Vision [Always True Seeing, +1 insight to AC, dunno which book exactly, could be DMG, could be anything else] allowed?

The concept I'm going for is a half celestial weretiger paladin3/barbarian6/frenzied beserker10, 12 point buy, and I'm still working on him (upping damage, making sure the first FoD won't slay me, etc).

Also, are those Ring of Nine Lives allowed? Would make quite a difference. I don't have the book in which they are [BoEM? MoF?] so if they are, how much do they cost? They sound quite nice for moi =]

Creamsteak · Feb 6, 2003

Sulli said:
so i can have the wands as they are or do i have to change them???.

You must change them to follow the guidelines I'm using. You most likely cannot afford to craft a maximized delayed blast fireball wand, but it is within reason to craft an enlarged delayed blast fireball staff. I'll even let it be handled for cost as if it was a wand.