D&D 5E Essentials: More like 3.9e than 4.5e (link inside)

[Votan]

The 3E Fighter still plays pretty simply, unless you take some rather obscure feats.

True, but making the builds straightforward isn't a bad deisgn goal, either.

I do think that there is a niche for a less complex version of 4E D&D. I would find character creation daunting these days without a DDI account; mcuh as I like the tool, I'd rather that not be the case.

It is also a nice idea to have structured classes so that complicated interactions don't show up as frequently. This is a real blessing for the newer DM who has a lot to manage.

 

[Jack99]

I'm in 4th edition's target audience, as I'm a 4th edition player. They are taking 4e in a new direction, so I think it's pretty relevant to me. Especially considering that every D&D product they have announced for september forward so far is Essentials branded.

Only throughout 2010. 2011 products will not only see Essentials products, if at all. 10 (or is it 11?) products and they are done, as far as I have understood.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

I'm not a WoW player, so please forgive me if I'm off-base here, but can this really correllate to D&D? In WoW your skill and success is compared with other players in the game world. There is a benchmark that allows somebody to get annoyed that the little snit playing the simple mage is ranked higher than them.

For most D&D players that comparison isn't made. I don't compare my skill with my wizard PC to the other player in my group running a fighter and delclare myself to be the superior player. Likewise, I don't talk about how my wizard was able to complete the "Return to the Expedition at the Keep by the Mountains of Doom" adventure and get annoyed that another person was also able to complete the same adventure using a simpler, less skill-intensive wizard build.

All I care about is that I am enjoying playing my PC and having fun playing with my gaming group.

Point taken. This isn't going to be a huge problem at a good table, but I think you are undervaluing performance gaps.

If one of the characters at the table is clearly not pulling his weight in encounters, it gets noticed. There are reasons the game is balanced around certain hit percentages and amounts of damage. If you have one of those players who forgets to apply his bonuses properly, doesn't notice ability synergies, forgets to use certain class features (4e monk's flurry comes to mind).... it has an effect on how well the group performs. It's most obvious with something like a striker, because there is often more than one, making comparison easier. But it can be noticed with other roles: "When Bob was our defender, he controlled an amazing front line, but since Joe took over, the wizard keeps getting his kidneys ripped out." At a good table, no one is a dick about it, but it can still be frustrating, especially for the person who is under-performing. With the involvement of the internet in conversations about this kind of thing, frustrations only increase.

 

[Storminator]

If WotC is truly going to seek to preserve D&D as a passtime, it must be possible for those people who have no experience with tabletop RPGs but who are intrigued by the concept to be able to get products that allow them to play. This is what the old red box series allowed so many people to do, which has thereby helped the tabletop RPG hobby exist through today, despite all of it's competition from electronic sources.

What the game really needs, and what I hope the Essentials line fulfills, is an easy and inexpensive way to let me buy a kid a birthday present, and have them end up playing D&D. I certainly won't get a kid the Core Rules set and send them on their way. I hope I can with this.

PS

 

[KidSnide]

4e seems much easier just to build a PC (more like 2e kits). It may not be optimized, but you go in DDI, pick a few powers that sound cool and you are off and running.

I don't agree with the proposition that making 4e characters is easy. I've noticed my less experienced players succumbing to total option paralysis as they try to decide between dozens of powers. It's not that they can't understand the difference between powers; it's that they don't understand the implications.

This goes to what some of the WotC folks have been saying - a new player understands that 1d6 + daze (save ends) is different from 2d8 + immobilize until the end of your next turn. It's just that a new player doesn't have the information to make an informed decision about which of those abilities is best for her character.

The Essentials builds make some of those decisions for you. (Cleric, for example, provides default encounter and utility powers, IIRC.) Players can switch them in-and-out if they want to customize further, but the number of mandatory rules-intensive decisions is cut down dramatically. If the in-game decision making is also easier for certain builds... well that option is a good thing too, IMO.

-KS

 

[I'm A Banana]

I've noticed my less experienced players succumbing to total option paralysis as they try to decide between dozens of powers.

Dude, I do that, and I've been playing since 2e! And I'm kind of a big dork! My current favorite method of making a new character involves running the Character Builder through a random Quick Character until it randomly generates something interesting, then tweaking (how I wound up with my gnome assassin!).

I want simple, powerful choices and quick, evocative gameplay. 4e has been an uphill struggle for me at times, because it doesn't yet have that. Essentials sounds like exactly the product my casual style has been jonesing for.

 

[Kobold Boots]

Pre-emptive statement: I will buy Essentials because I tend to buy everything I think is cool and this sounds cool. (Access to Compendium notwithstanding)

However, this is a retcon of the 4E rules and a form of game design mea culpa. It's also 4.5, regardless of the marketing as with the errata floating around you can't make any other argument without sounding ignorant in my humble opinion.

Just give us cool stuff and let the DM's and players sort it out. If we've been with the system and the prevailing company since 1e or red box you're always going to have us. If we've walked away we're likely not coming back at all.. and if we're stuck in another edition entirely then what needs to happen is to bridge the gap and be up front about it.

3.9/4.5/Essentials.. same thing. It's a recognition that 3.5 is loved, 2.0 and 1e still have significant player bases and Pathfinder is just a slap to the face of WoTC. It was a bad business move to orphan 3.5 and 4.0 was perhaps too much too fast.

Got to love the risk taking though and now we have more cool stuff to play with.

KB

 

[MerricB]

Only throughout 2010. 2011 products will not only see Essentials products, if at all. 10 (or is it 11?) products and they are done, as far as I have understood.

It's 10 products, but there seem to be a few "intermediate" products coming out next year.

In particular, this product: Heroes of Shadow.

"Player’s Option books are aimed at players who are ready to move beyond the Player Essentials books, Heroes of the Fallen Lands and Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms. The Player’s Option series presents advanced Dungeons & Dragons character options as well as new ways to customize and optimize one’s existing character."

Cheers!

 

[I'm A Banana]

Heroes of Shadow has me pumped.

Hexblades! Necromancers! And my good friend the "DDI-exclusive" Assassin.

Yes plz!

 

[Remathilis]

Another preview of the wizard here: Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (Wizard Preview)

Welcome Home, Schools of Magic. While we're at it, its nice to see Magic Missile is STANDARD, and a spell-chart (of sorts).