evasion and being grappled

[SteveC]

A quick question: I could find no reason by the RAW that a character who is grappled would lose access to a rogue's evasion ability. I thought it was pretty silly, but by the rules I could find no reason to disallow it. Was I right?

The situation was that a character was grappled by a barbed devil and one of the other PCs cast arc of lighting between the devil and another opponent.

So how would you have handled it?

--Steve

 

[moritheil]

A quick question: I could find no reason by the RAW that a character who is grappled would lose access to a rogue's evasion ability. I thought it was pretty silly, but by the rules I could find no reason to disallow it. Was I right?

The situation was that a character was grappled by a barbed devil and one of the other PCs cast arc of lighting between the devil and another opponent.

So how would you have handled it?

--Steve

I think you're overthinking this. I wouldn't disallow it; the rules don't say to.

Put another way - suppose you disallowed evasion and killed the player's character. The player would then have a legitimate complaint that you killed his or her character by imposing penalties not stated in the rules.

 

[SteveC]

Put another way - suppose you disallowed evasion and killed the player's character. The player would then have a legitimate complaint that you killed his or her character by imposing penalties not stated in the rules.

Oh that was the exact situation! I initially said "nope, no evasion" and then his character was killed stone cold dead by the damage, so I said "we need to make sure of this to be fair." So I did the right thing ... at least that's what I think the RAW says, I was just wondering if there is a rule I was missing.

--Steve

 

[s-dub]

The SRD only states that helpless characters lose evasion, not flatfooted.

So by the RAW he shouldn't take a penalty.

I personally would have done so if I were writing the rules.

 

[Nifft]

I'd visualize it like so: in general, the grappling Rogue is cunning enough to use his opponent as a shield against the area effect; or in this case, the Rogue is cunning enough to avoid the lightning zapping between his opponent and some other dude.

Cheers, -- N

 

[frankthedm]

In the evasion ability, the PHB called out situations where reflex saves are disallowed, such as in tight quarters. I think disallowing reflex saves, and thus evasion, while grappled is a fine ruling

 

[Zelc]

In the evasion ability, the PHB called out situations where reflex saves are disallowed, such as in tight quarters. I think disallowing reflex saves, and thus evasion, while grappled is a fine ruling

Wait. Having an easy-to-do combat action that causes every spell that with "Save: Reflex Half/Partial/Negates" to become "Save: None" is NOT a fine ruling. I'm positive there is an extremely easy way to break this.

ETA: Hmm, I just did. Evard's Black Tentacles becoming even deadlier? Just add reflex save spells.

 

[MarkB]

Wait. Having an easy-to-do combat action that causes every spell that with "Save: Reflex Half/Partial/Negates" to become "Save: None" is NOT a fine ruling. I'm positive there is an extremely easy way to break this.

ETA: Hmm, I just did. Evard's Black Tentacles becoming even deadlier? Just add reflex save spells.

Fireball combined with grappling summoned fire elementals also comes to mind.

 

[Hypersmurf]

A quick question: I could find no reason by the RAW that a character who is grappled would lose access to a rogue's evasion ability. I thought it was pretty silly, but by the rules I could find no reason to disallow it. Was I right?

"As with a Reflex save for any creature, a character must have room to move in order to evade. A bound character or one squeezing through an area cannot use evasion."

If the character were pinned, I would certainly disallow Evasion; I wouldn't consider the pinned character to have room to move.

Merely grappled, on the other hand? He retains his Dex bonus to AC against creatures not in the grapple, so he must have some ability to move; I wouldn't have a problem with Evasion being used in this case. (I can even bring up the mental image of the rogue managing to swing the grapple about so that he is sheltered from the blast by his opponent.)

I once had a DM who denied me my Evasion because I was riding a horse. That irritated me at the time.

-Hyp.

 

[Stalker0]

Considering you still get to make reflex saves and get evasion when your flatfooted, then I think they should keep them while grappling.