Evasion and Non-Traditional Breath Weapons

[chengarino]

A discussion in our gaming group. We know that Evasion allows a Monk/Rogue to avoid damage if he makes a reflex save against breath weapons whose ref save would half damage.

Does this same Evasion apply to breath weapons (whose successful reflex save):

(1) halves ability/level damage?
(2) lowers (but not halves) ability/level damage?

The talk in the group is no on both accounts. My PC has evasion, so I'm arguing up the 'yes' on both accounts. Was there a clarification on the rules somewhere in 'sage' or faq? or did we misread the core rules as stated?

chengarino

 

[kreynolds]

Does this same Evasion apply to breath weapons (whose successful reflex save):

(1) halves ability/level damage?

Yes. From the FAQ...

Do the evasion and improved evasion abilities apply
when a shadow dragon breathes on a character? My DM
said no because the breath weapon does not deal direct hit
point damage, and there is no save for half damage.
&nbsp&nbsp&nbspEvasion and improved evasion work anytime a character
must make a Reflex save to halve an effect, including that of
shadow dragon breath. Most descriptions of these abilities
specifically mention saves for half damage, but that language
is not intended to restrict evasion or improved evasion to
effects that deal hit point damage.

(2) lowers (but not halves) ability/level damage?

Can you give an example?

 

[chengarino]

Re: Re: Evasion and Non-Traditional Breath Weapons

Can you give an example?

Nope. We're playing the adventure now and i'm not looking the monster up. Frankly, my PC doesn't know quite what hit him.

Needless to say, when the PC does a successful ref save, there's still a level damage but it's not half.

chengarino

 

[RigaMortus2]

I'd say, if it allows a Reflex save, you can use Evasion.

Edit - Unless under the effect (or creature using the breath weapon) it specifically says otherwise.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Evasion and Non-Traditional Breath Weapons

Frankly, my PC doesn't know quite what hit him.

If it makes you feel any better, even _I_ don't know what hit you. I've never heard of a breath weapon...

Needless to say, when the PC does a successful ref save, there's still a level damage but it's not half.

...like this. Sounds like some homebrew stuff. Anyways, Evasion specifically states "Reflex saving throw for half damage". By the exact wording of the rules, evasion wouldn't apply if half damage wasn't the result of a successful Reflex save.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I belive there is some kind of Shadow Dragon that causes level loss. We encountered this kind if Dragon twice, in two different campaigns.

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[kreynolds]

I belive there is some kind of Shadow Dragon that causes level loss.

There is. It's in MoF. A successful Reflex save will reduce the negative levels by half, so evasion would still apply.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

Negative levels are a type of damage (see the definition of damage in the PHB glossary, I believe). That's why evasion works if you're making a reflex save to take half as many of them. It's not actually a special case or anything.

Anything that isn't a reflex save for half damage, evasion doesn't apply. It just doesn't matter what type of damage (e.g. hit points, negative levels, ability) is involved.

 

[kreynolds]

Negative levels are a type of damage (see the definition of damage in the PHB glossary, I believe). That's why evasion works if you're making a reflex save to take half as many of them. It's not actually a special case or anything.

Anything that isn't a reflex save for half damage, evasion doesn't apply. It just doesn't matter what type of damage (e.g. hit points, negative levels, ability) is involved.

Your assertion conflicts with the FAQ entry posted above. The FAQ states that evasion kicks in "anytime a character
must make a Reflex save to halve an effect". Damage has nothing to do with it.

 

[Darklone]

The description of evasion says that you get out of the way of the effect (obviously even if that effect fills a volume,... ).

Thus no damage at all if you make the save.