Experience with high-level D20 Modern games?

[RangerWickett]

I want to hear about people's experiences in high level (9+) Modern games. So far I don't have any experience running or playing such games, and while I'm competent running high-level D&D games, I want to know how Modern games might differ.

 

[kirinke]

Probably be something along the lines of a james bond movie, spiderman, 'constantine' etc. All of those would be relatively high level/power characters.

 

[Turanil]

I want to know how Modern games might differ.

I have been much disappointed by WotC free adventures for d20 Modern. Their whole line of free PDFs range from 1st to 18th level. The fact is, the type of adventures involving 2nd level characters is not so different from those involving 18th level characters; they just augment the DCs of skill checks and the level of NPCs (so your common thief has become 15th level instead of 3rd, but otherwise is the same). This is so lame!!

I suggest that you decide on a scaling of adventures and foes by level. Say: 1st level you go against the local thug, while at 9th level you fight against assassins from the Mafia or uber terrorists. Then, at 18th level you go against the KGB, the Illuminati, an alien conspiracy from X-Files, etc. I otherwise think you can get inspiration from James Bond movies for 10th and above level adventures.

 

[JPL]

I did a great one-shot a while back...I believe everyone was 14th level. One thing I did right, I think, was just get the point across to the players that these guys were just plain GOOD. NPCs --- friend and foe alike --- treated them accordingly. If the characters are treated like super ninja Spec Ops by everyone they encounter, the players are more likely to get into the role and take risks and try crazy stuff.

 

[wingsandsword]

High level games in Modern vs. D&D.

With the MDT=Con, even high level characters have to worry about routine firefights, they could blow a save and be in big trouble (and characters without high Fort saves, like a lot of non-combat-oriented characters) are really in trouble. Even a 20th level Smart/Techie has to worry about a 1st level character with a machine gun. There are also a lot more options for "sudden death" scenarios than normally in D&D: Plane crashes, explosive decompression, submarine implosions, nuclear blasts, carpet bombing. There are a lot more things that will kill you no matter what your saves or HP are.

This leads into another bit: CR/EL isn't as firm an indicator of threat level. A few low level characters with big weapons could be a significant threat to high level characters, and a 1st level Dedicated Ordinary who is a Sheriff's Deputy and calls in a report on the PC's actions could be a lot more trouble than a much higher level heroic character who just went in guns blazing. In a setting that is all realistic, getting on the bad side of the law is a lot bigger deal than in D&D. In D&D if you get in trouble with the law or accidentally kill a commoner, no big deal as you go to another town or the next kingdom over, in Modern you could end up wanted for life across an entire country (if not demanding your extradition across international boundaries).

High Level D&D is based largely on the idea of the powerful independent adventurers who have made a career out of beating up monsters, acting like mercenaries to kill orc hoardes, smashing old temples, and looting everything that wasn't nailed down, and eventually settled down and built their own castle. That behavior in a modern game would get you wanted for hunting endangered species, being mercenaries, defiling archaeological sites, plundering, theft, and many other serious crimes, and have a big mansion/compound that is just begging to be siezed as the proceeds of illegal activities. High level Modern characters are more likely to be accountable to a government or other powerful sponsoring organization, and have a lot more accountability for their actions.

Also, in High Level D&D, just about anything bad that could happen to a PC can be undone quickly. Heal spells, Wishes, Raise Dead/Ressurrection/True Ressurection ect. mean that any fight quickly just becomes a matter of resouce management: How much will it take to win and how much will it take to put the pieces back together afterwards. If you're playing in a d20 Modern setting that has FX, a lot of that magic help is missing, or very limited. Death is a lot more likely to be permanent, and PC's can't just assume that anything that happens can be neatly and quickly undone.

A lot of High Level D&D I've seen focuses on custom item creation. Making an At Will, Use Activated Cure [something] Wounds item, or some min-maxed custom magic weapon, or having a full ensemble of exactly the stat and skill boosters you want, which is a lot less likely in d20 Modern. Even in high-level FX games you don't get as much in the way of magic items, so each item is a lot more precious, and magic items aren't the be-all of your character's equipment, and expect the PC's to be rich enough to buy virtually any nonmagical equipment they want.

 

[takyris]

With high-level d20 Modern, it becomes a real question of balance against focus. A focused high-level Modern character can make nigh-impossible skill checks but still die when a mook empties an assault rifle at him. For that matter, even a combat machine can still die in unlucky circumstances.

I've run a few 10th level one-shots and a 12th-level mini-game that was a ripoff of "Enter the Dragon" (mysterious guy runs martial arts tournament on island, and heroes have to sneak onto island and win tournament and defeat bad guys and kick bad guy slave-ring butt). The heroes were generally awesome in the area they wanted to be awesome in, but I put a fair hurt on them when I hit them in an area they weren't specialized in. (For example, the Defense 29 Aikido master (Agile Riposte, Advanced Combat Throw, etc) died when mooks opened up with assault rifles on autofire, and somebody rolled well -- and then the Aikido master rolled badly, which was ironic, since of all the characters in the game, I figured that he was the least killable.)

So in terms of being heroic, I agree with the "keep the mooks low-level" plan someone else espoused. A good mook should be a 1/1 (Strong/Fast, Tough/Fast, Strong/Tough, whatever). A good mook commander works well at 3/3. And a good mook special agent is great at 5/5. Really, only people who'd have a name in Neverwinter Knights should be heroic and not ordinary -- ie, "Arikan Deathwatch" and not "Dark Knight". The ordinaries can still be plenty deadly.

(One of my joke bad guys, sent against a hero who was nigh-unkillable, dual-wielded bastard swords and power-attacked for a huge amount. He needed a 20 to hit, but if he hit, it was gonna cause a Massive Damage check automatically, just based on the minimum damage. In fact, I gave him 8 of those bastard swords, and the hero steadily disarmed his way through the fight, taking away sword after sword. It was hilarious.)

 

[Alaska Roberts]

I think d20Modern high levels campaigns are more along the lines of your power level in the world as opposed to just your character level. In other words, situational involement, where your characters can get into at 3rd level is allot different than 13th level, and so on.

My last D20 Modern campaign, and soon to be intertwined with my new one, was a solo campaign that started at 3rd level and has moved up to 17th level. Now Jack started as a Bond type character in England at 3rd level, he had access to 2 contacts, a car, a place to live and limited resources. At 17th level, he has dozens of contacts, is freinds with Kings and Presidents, has a castle and a half dozen other residences or places he is always welcome, and his resources are a little crazy . Power levels way up there at this point.

So as he goes up so does the competition and power level of the entire playing field. I wasn't afraid to let him clime the power ladder, I included many known personalities and famous types to give it that higher level feel. Meetings with the heads of governments, powerful celebrities and politicians are all fair game in my campaigns.


Alaska

 

[Von Ether]

I think d20Modern high levels campaigns are more along the lines of your power level in the world as opposed to just your character level. In other words, situational involement, where your characters can get into at 3rd level is allot different than 13th level, and so on.

My last D20 Modern campaign, and soon to be intertwined with my new one, was a solo campaign that started at 3rd level and has moved up to 17th level. Now Jack started as a Bond type character in England at 3rd level, he had access to 2 contacts, a car, a place to live and limited resources. At 17th level, he has dozens of contacts, is freinds with Kings and Presidents, has a castle and a half dozen other residences or places he is always welcome, and his resources are a little crazy . Power levels way up there at this point.

So as he goes up so does the competition and power level of the entire playing field. I wasn't afraid to let him clime the power ladder, I included many known personalities and famous types to give it that higher level feel. Meetings with the heads of governments, powerful celebrities and politicians are all fair game in my campaigns.


Alaska

I haven't run a 1-20 d20M game yet, but this is along the lines I planned for a campaign where every five levels or so the focus of the campaign changes.

From experimental lab escapees surviving in the sewer to neighborhood heroes to urban myth, to super soliders to psionic gesalt living weapon.

 

[takyris]

Von Ether,

I like the idea of consciously planning the campaign focus like that. It's not something I've done formally, but it really makes sense.

For the campaign I'm working on now, I'd go with:

1-5: Investigating bandit attacks, dealing with bandits, saving townsfolk
6-10: Dealing with the short war that results from finding out who was responsible for the bandit attacks (ie, doing special missions).
11-15: Dealing with more international politics and investigating the big mysteries of the world.
16-20: Overarching enemies revealed and confronted in worldshaking combat.

(Mind you, this is for a d20 Modern-rules game that is taking place in a low-magic fantasy world, so it might be more appropriate for a D&D-with-few-mages game.)