D&D 5E Experiences with a PC garrote weapon?

[Fenris-77]

No offense, but that sounds like a lot of work for a result that doesn't really match what a garrote actually does. That said, there is most likely a reason that strangulation isn't a mechanic in D&D already - it doesn't really mesh with the existing mechanics all that well, and it can OP as all get out against higher level NPCs depending on how its implemented. I'll give you props for coloring inside the lines at least.

 

[tommybahama]

How about this:

A garrote is a two handed attack requiring an athletics skill check. If successful, the target is grappled. The target can attempt another athletics check to escape the grapple on its turn. On the attacker's next turn, it can attempt another athletics check to stun the target. If successful the target has the stunned condition. A successful athletics check on the target's turn will move the stunned target back to the grappled condition. On the attacker's next turn, it can attempt another athletics check. If it succeeds, the stunned target becomes unconscious. So grappled-->stunned-->unconscious in three rounds or 18 seconds sounds reasonable. If you want to make it longer add the restrained condition step between grappled and stunned.

I would give the target advantage on the first athletics check if it is wearing medium or heavy armor or is aware of the attack.

 

[Fenris-77]

How about this:

A garrote is a two handed attack requiring an athletics skill check. If successful, the target is grappled. The target can attempt another athletics check to escape the grapple on its turn. On the attacker's next turn, it can attempt another athletics check to stun the target. If successful the target has the stunned condition. A successful athletics check on the target's turn will move the stunned target back to the grappled condition. On the attacker's next turn, it can attempt another athletics check. If it succeeds, the stunned target becomes unconscious. So grappled-->stunned-->unconscious in three rounds or 18 seconds sounds reasonable. If you want to make it longer add the restrained condition step between grappled and stunned.

I would give the target advantage on the first athletics check if it is wearing medium or heavy armor or is aware of the attack.

I really like this approach a lot. My issue with it is my issue with most rules for strangulation in D&D, is that it relies on a grapple check as the core, which means it's as abuse friendly as the current grapple rules. If a DM wanted to 'garrote-proof' his game it would be ok, but that's actually a lot of work, as almost nothing in the game other than PCs have the Athletics skill. That's not an insurmountable problem though, but I do think it would need to be addressed to make the garrote useful but not broken.

 

[Quickleaf]

I think you are pretty close, but I'm skeptical on the house rule Damage while Holding Breath. That would practically make most commoners unconscious and dying the first round (of course the damage alone would do that). If that's intended...

I left a lot of context out to focus on the heart of my question, but the setting is Egyptian and river travel full of hippos, crocodiles, giant aquatic snakes, tigerfish swarms, and other hazards is kind of expected. So, that house rule emerged from wanting to make tangling with those sorts of creatures underwater more frightening; thus, making the decision to explore some underwater ruins more consequential. I'm not yet 100% on the fine tuning of the rule – and especially its interaction with the garrote – but the general intent is making holding your breath more tactical.

Because without any house rule, most D&D fights are over within a matter of rounds, and in an underwater fight the PCs still have minutes of held breath left. Speaking from experience, after one fight like that, players will no longer fear drowning.

Also, how does the target/victim get out? Just the grapple check, or can they break the garrote? Perhaps using a dagger or just strength to break it (even if it causes damage to themselves).

Hadn't thought of cutting the garrote and slitting your throat in the process – that's a novel idea. But all the ways you can usually escape a grapple would apply:

• Making an opposed Acrobatics/Athletics check as an action, and beating what the garrote-wielder rolled on their Athletics/Sleight of Hand check.
• Shoving the garrote-wielder or otherwise forcibly moving them away.
• Spells that teleport, planeshift, or turn you into a gaseous state.
• Incapacitating the garrote-wielder by reducing them to 0 HP, paralyzing them, stunning them, petrifying them, or putting them to sleep.

 

[Quickleaf]

My version:

All attacks with a garrotte are at disadvantage. It deals d6 + strength damage on a hit and if you hit, the target is grappled and must make a Constitution saving throw with a DC equal to 8 + our proficiency bonus plus your strength modifier. If the creature failed the saving throw, the duration it can hold its breath is halved (minimum 30 seconds) - see below.

Until the grapple is broken, the target takes d6+ strength damage at the start of each of its turns. If you take an action, bonus action or reaction while the target is grappled, the grapple ends.

While the creature is grappled, it must hold its breath. A creature can hold its breath for a number of minutes equal to 1 + its Constitution modifier (minimum of 30 seconds). When a creature runs out of breath or is choking, it begins to suffocate and can survive for a number of rounds equal to its Constitution modifier (minimum of 1 round). At the start of its next turn, it drops to 0 hit points and is dying, and it can't regain hit points or be stabilized until it can breathe again. For example, a creature with a Constitution of 14 can hold its breath for 3 minutes, or 90 seconds if it failed the saving throw. If it starts suffocating, it has 2 rounds to reach air before it drops to 0 hit points.

So, want to make sure I'm reading your rule right... if a PC were to garrote a knight (Constitution 14, hp 52), and the knight failed its CON save, then it would be reduced from 3 minutes (180 seconds) of held breath to 90 seconds of held breath. In other words, to choke out the knight would require 15 rounds?

Whereas each round if you're dealing ~5 damage per round with the garrote, it would take around 10 rounds to reduce the knight to 0 HP.

Thus, with your rules, the ideal circumstances to use a garrote are against a frail (low Constitution) creature with high hit points like an archmage, is that right?

 

[jgsugden]

No offense, but that sounds like a lot of work for a result that doesn't really match what a garrote actually does. That said, there is most likely a reason that strangulation isn't a mechanic in D&D already - it doesn't really mesh with the existing mechanics all that well, and it can OP as all get out against higher level NPCs depending on how its implemented. I'll give you props for coloring inside the lines at least.

If you're speaking about my suggestion: A garrote works in two ways - it suffocates someone and it cuts into the neck and through those key blood passages in the neck (like piano wire through cheese). Damage and suffocation - and how quickly you'd suffocate depends on whether you get a deep breath or not breath before it connects with the neck. That is what my approach covers.

 

[Jediking]

Seems pretty straight-forward based on the Ettercap and Ghauld statblocks.
I allow any creature weapons (eg. Kuo-Toa's Pincer Staff or Lizardfolk's Spiked Shield) in my own games to be used by PCs, but class them as exotic weapons. Characters can gain proficiency in exotic weapons through the Weapon Master feat, retraining any skill proficiency, or through in-game play.

As far as using a Garrote as a standard weapon, it is simple enough to extract the stats and let your Bard have a use to bring piano wire. Sure there are creative ways to use it, but it won't break your game to allow it be used freely.

Martial Melee Weapon
Garrote, 1d4 bludgeoning, 1lb, two-handed, finesse, special

Special: to use this weapon you must have advantage on the attack roll against a creature your size or smaller. On a hit, the target is grappled (escape DC = 8+proficiency bonus+Str or Dex mod). Until this grapple ends, the target can't breathe and you have advantage on attack rolls against it.

 

[Quickleaf]

I really like this approach a lot. My issue with it is my issue with most rules for strangulation in D&D, is that it relies on a grapple check as the core, which means it's as abuse friendly as the current grapple rules. If a DM wanted to 'garrote-proof' his game it would be ok, but that's actually a lot of work, as almost nothing in the game other than PCs have the Athletics skill. That's not an insurmountable problem though, but I do think it would need to be addressed to make the garrote useful but not broken.

My player suggested using a static DC to resist/escape the garrote = 10 + DEX or STR, instead of an opposed check like grappling normally uses.

So it would be (a) can I make a garrote attack under these conditions?, (b) roll my attack (likely with advantage due to said conditions), (c) if I hit the target takes 1d6 damage and (d) it must make an Athletics/Acrobatics check versus DC = 10 + my DEX or STR mod, (e) if it succeeds it is not grappled, but (f) if it fails it is grappled with all the other garrote coolness that implies.

 

[jgsugden]

So, want to make sure I'm reading your rule right... if a PC were to garrote a knight (Constitution 14, hp 52), and the knight failed its CON save, then it would be reduced from 3 minutes (180 seconds) of held breath to 90 seconds of held breath. In other words, to choke out the knight would require 15 rounds?

Whereas each round if you're dealing ~5 damage per round with the garrote, it would take around 10 rounds to reduce the knight to 0 HP.

Thus, with your rules, the ideal circumstances to use a garrote are against a frail (low Constitution) creature with high hit points like an archmage, is that right?

Ever use a cheese cutter? The piano wire on a level that slices through cheese?

The traditional garrote that strangled people was not the handheld device you are thinking about. It was used on a helpless victim to slowly apply pressure, slowly cutting off oxygen but not doing utting or crushing enough to kill through physical trauma.

A garrote that is handheld would typically not kill through suffocation. That is movies talking. The real weapon would destroy the neck and kill by trauma. Really, the nod to suffocation is just there for those super high hp foes that can "endure the trauma".

 

[Fenris-77]

Maintaining the garotte is something I would definitely move outside of the grapple rules for. As I mentioned above, I think something like the Concentration mechanics might work.

Let me just spitball for a second. If the defender got to attack, unarmed or natural weapons only, but with disadvantage, that could balance calling for a STR save by the attacker on damage taken, with a negative mod equal to the damage. PCs could maybe be allowed to choose between STR mod and proficiency for the save, to give skill some chance, since we're kind of taking expertise off the table.

A successful save or failed attack moves the unconscious counter along one as in @tommybahama 's example.