Experiences with Dogs in the Vineyard

Something that often gets missed, I think, is that the PCs are the direct mouthpiece of God. If they are in agreement, they can change the rules of society. If you have a player who finds the Faith's nineteenth century view of sexual roles abhorrent, he can change him by saying "The King of Life has declared that the old rules are broken. Women can be stewards now. You two guys can get married."

And that, in itself, is a great setup for future conflicts, because these people still need to live in a world with nineteenth century mores, and the Faith only goes so far. So as far as I'm concerned that's just delicious. Revisiting towns where Dogs make strong choices is one of the greatest parts of the game, and it is a shame it gets played so often as a one-shot.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

The husband has a friend, who honestly is kind of a douche, whose been talking about running a Dogs in the Vineyard in a setting where the South war the civil war, only to break up ad become heavily balkanized.
 

Yeah, that sounds like a bad idea. As a thought experiment, maybe.

I can't emphasize enough that the game, as written, is really solid. The motivation to hack it often seems to actively avoid the game's ethical core, which is a mistake in my opinion.
 

I agree that Dogs is the perfect system for a group of Jedi Knights.

One thing worth underscoring: this is not the game for a large gaming group. I'd be really hesitant to play with any more than four players + GM.
 

I think three players + GM is the sweet spot. I like to play with two as well. The way the dice work, if even three Dogs line up, they are pretty unstoppable. This isn't a huge deal, but if playing with a larger group, definitely have a backup town ready!
 

I think three players + GM is the sweet spot. I like to play with two as well. The way the dice work, if even three Dogs line up, they are pretty unstoppable. This isn't a huge deal, but if playing with a larger group, definitely have a backup town ready!

Yeah, that's part of the reason why I like it best when the Dogs end up on opposite sides of a major conflict. If they Dogpile the NPCs, the Dogs will win, every time. That's not a bad thing, because they're still then passing judgment, and that's interesting. But if you've got 2 Dogs on one side, and 1 Dog and his sketchy cousin on the other side, then you've got the recipe for a really awesome conflict that's fun to play and that has lots of potential for "You shot me... I can't believe you shot me... I thought we were falling in love" and "I am in love with you, but I can't let you murder my cousin, even if he is kinda a loser and bad for his community." And what's not to like there?

Also, I fully agree with Pcat and jmstar that it's a small group game. You can run a five player game and have it work well. Six is possible but not really a good idea. But 2, 3, and 4 players (plus the GM) are the sweet spot. (Solo player (or "duet" style, for people who like that term) would probably also work, but you lose a lot by not having the PC-PC interactions and conflicts.)
 

I've run Dogs one-on-one a number of times and it is actually pretty fun, because the solo Dog really, really needs some friends and can be outgunned by Demonic Influence. You do lose the interesting back and forth and disagreement over key issues. That's why 3 Dogs may be best - you get those cool 2-on-1 situations.
 

We found it's a very good game, provided you can get everyone into the setting. As jmstar said, you've got players with absolute authority but it's really then down to them to create their own internal moral dilemmas.

What I found is that sometimes they won't and it becomes more like Judge Dredd, who doesn't mess with feelings of uncertainty or guilt. I found it quite a hard pitch as a GM giving the players (a totally non-religious bunch) the combination of total moral authority and at the same time moral doubt.

The mechanics are clever, in that they allow seamless escalation from talking to fists to guns. Each side rolls some dice and then you start playing your dice - in ones and twos - and narrate your action. When one character can't beat the other's dice they lose, or they escalate the conflict and get to roll more to add into the conflict. It works really well.

As I said above, the challenge I found was getting totally non-religious players into a game about the limits of religious authority. We found it sometimes veered into satire, with the occasional shout of 'nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!'

Even though the game assumes that the authority is religious, do you think the non-religious players could get in the right frame of mind by seeing it as a game about the limits of authority in general (i.e., not specifically religious authority)? As a non-religious person it seems like I would be able to draw from the quandaries of having total moral authority and moral doubt. Or do the moral perspectives that the players bring need to be religious since religion is such a part of the setting? (Hopefully I'm asking that clearly.)

Also, my group has a wide spectrum of political and religious views. Do you think it works well in groups of mixed morals or is there too much room for arguments to spill off of the table and into the real world?
 

The husband has a friend, who honestly is kind of a douche, whose been talking about running a Dogs in the Vineyard in a setting where the South war the civil war, only to break up ad become heavily balkanized.

Has he heard of Deadlands? Nothing I can do about the douche part though, sorry about that.
 

Even though the game assumes that the authority is religious, do you think the non-religious players could get in the right frame of mind by seeing it as a game about the limits of authority in general (i.e., not specifically religious authority)? As a non-religious person it seems like I would be able to draw from the quandaries of having total moral authority and moral doubt. Or do the moral perspectives that the players bring need to be religious since religion is such a part of the setting? (Hopefully I'm asking that clearly.)

Also, my group has a wide spectrum of political and religious views. Do you think it works well in groups of mixed morals or is there too much room for arguments to spill off of the table and into the real world?

I don't think that the specifically religious nature of the moral questions is that important to the game--it's important to the setting, and to many of the characters, but you could totally play a Dog who is secretly atheist but cares about the moral issues. Or you could as a non-religious player play a religious character, and again engage with the moral issues as interesting issues. And then of course many alternate settings get away from the religious background entirely.

Re: a wide spectrum of views: I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, but it goes to issues of trust and comfort. I would ask myself the question, "would I feel comfortable discussing a serious real-world moral question, with political and religious overtones, in this group?" If your response to the idea of a discussion of, for example, same-sex marriage, is "wow, that would be totally awful, we should never never never bring that topic up," then my guess is that having a Dogs game where a same-sex relationship was at issue would also be a bad idea. And if there are lots of topics like that, so that you have to steer clear of all issues of sex, gender roles, and morality, then you're playing with the least interesting parts of Dogs, and I personally wouldn't bother. If, on the other hand, you're like "Well, Sally and Joe will really disagree over that, with Jim having a different perspective, but we're all adults who are comfortable disagreeing over these sorts of things, and the conversation could be interesting..." then you might have a really fruitful game. It can also help for the PCs to have different attitudes from the players (the cognitive dissonance can be fun), but that can also make the game less "grabby," reducing the emotional punch--it's often said that you want a moral dilemma that's designed to grab the players, not just the PCs.

The tl;dr version: Be careful about it, that could cause problems, but it could work well if the players have a lot of trust and respect.
 

Remove ads

Top