Explain "20 Minutes of Fun over 4 Hours" to me

[Lord Zardoz]

I will agree with the pseudo consensus...

The amount of entertainment derived from D&D should be greater considering the time spent playing / prepping a game.

Games can get slow or bogged down way too easily, and while I am content with the current system, I would not mind seeing things sped up or streamlined.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

When I game, I game with friends. Sure, there's OOC talk, there's eating, etc. That's part of the fun. The best gaming experiences (IMO) involve the people far more than the game.

If you're looking at an RPG as a source of non-stop, on-topic amusement, ya picked the wrong hobby.

 

[JustinA]

Something's bothered me this past Sunday afternoon, after the Phillies game but right before my Eberron game. I read recently here on EN World, regarding 'future editions' of D&D, that Ryan Dancey was quoted as saying something like "D&D is 20 minutes of fun condensed into 4 hours".

My understanding is that he's referring to a couple of different things:

1. Many gaming groups will spend a lot of time during the session doing things which aren't fun in order to start having fun.

2. The DM usually spends a lot of prep time compared to the amount of time it takes for the players to actually chew through that prep.

I find there's a minor problem with Dancey's thesis (and I'm generally a Dancey fanboy): It makes assumptions about what is and isn't fun for people.

For example, as a DM, I enjoy my prep work. As a player I enjoy tinkering with my character.

That being said: The solution lies in tools which will make it easier to prep games and get to the fun stuff.

Dancey's later comments about how to design efficient game systems is important.

I wish I could find the original quote, and its context, because I can't quite wrap my head around it.

AFAIK, this is the original use of the quote: http://mearls.livejournal.com/105311.html

I find his analysis of MMORPG's growing impact on the RPG market to be the more interesting part of his post. I think it's spot on. MMORPGs don't compete with the type of RPG play with character immersion and high quality DMing, but it does compete with the hack 'n slash style of RPG play... and the hack 'n slash style of RPG play is notably the gateway drug of the RPG market.

When I was first attracted to RPGs, I bounced off several games because I literally couldn't figure out (at 10 years old) what I was supposed to do with them. The 1984 D&D Basic Set finally got me addicted because it gave me a simple formula:

(1) Draw rooms on graph paper.

(2) Put monsters in room.

(3) Fight monsters.

The dungeon crawl is the secret of D&D's success because it's what makes the game easy for beginning DMs to prep and intuitive for beginning players to play. But that simplistic style of play is completely out-performed by MMORPGs, which do the exact same thing without the inconvenience of getting together and with the awesomeness of really cool graphics.

 

[Crothian]

It really depends on the focus of the game. If it is a more social laid back group then that 30 minutes of talking about the latest video games could be seen as fun.

I'm with DM_Jeff though in that when I run games they aren't like that. we don't stop the game for bathroom breaks. When we are looking things up I have a player do it so I can keep talking and the game moves. When they want minis and such I also keep describing things and keep the game moving. We handle food before the game starts. And all that shopping and dealing with prices and other non important details we handle on our own message boards as much as possible. Once one realizes what is being done instead of the fun one can lessen their impact.

 

[JohnSnow]

Wasn't there a related comment that 3e would be the perfect game:

"If we could clone Skip Williams and include a copy of him with every Dungeon Master's Guide."

Or something to that effect?

In other words, a great DM makes a great game session. Which I personally believe is the entire focus of WotC's digital initiative - to make better DMs.

So, for those of you are involved in great, fun-packed games, congrats - you are (or have) great DMs. The rest of us are less lucky.

 

[LostSoul]

I played in a boring game a while ago.

We were playing in some module and, before the game started, I said, "Let's just start out at the front entrance to the dungeon." Because I wanted to get in there, kill things, and take their stuff.

Instead we had to wander around town looking for someone to tell us where the front door to the dungeon was. It was boring. Those 3-4 hours could easily have been summed up by the DM in 30 seconds, and we could have started having fun right away.

 

[RFisher]

"Many RPG sessions consist of a very limited amount of "roleplaying game", surrounded by a lot of argument, community dialog, eating, and other distractions."

<shrug> All essential parts of the supertext to me. (Though I choose a smaller portion of arguments these days.) Minimizing these "distractions" would be like only watching a movie's climactic scene. (& only the dramatic climax at that) Or only having the main course of a meal.

The best gaming experiences (IMO) involve the people far more than the game.

Yep. IMO also.

 

[mmadsen]

The dungeon crawl is the secret of D&D's success because it's what makes the game easy for beginning DMs to prep and intuitive for beginning players to play. But that simplistic style of play is completely out-performed by MMORPGs, which do the exact same thing without the inconvenience of getting together and with the awesomeness of really cool graphics.

Well said. This raises the issue of what the DMG (and other products) should do to make the game easier to run. We probably need a list of adventure-story cliches and sample plot structures that are as easy to put together as (1) draw rooms on graph paper, (2) put monsters in rooms, (3) kill monsters.

 

[Rackhir]

It sounds like a parody of a classic description of military life (possibly the Navy to be specific) "Months of boredom, punctuated by minutes of sheer screaming terror."

 

[Vanuslux]

I usually get pretty good fun mileage from my sessions, but I have low tolerance for rule lawyering and have no trouble making judgment calls without having to consult the books. Brushing up on rules is something I do between games. If I can't remember exactly what the rule is on something during the game, I ad lib it. It seems pretty simple to me that the biggest mistake a group can make is getting more concerned about the fine details than the overall flow of the game.