D&D 5E Explain to a guy who's never played spellcasters the difference between wizards and sorcerers

[Eric V]

Ironically, your post makes me think WotC did an excellent job of evoking the feel of the original Sorcerer. ;P That just sounds so much like the criticisms of the 3.x Sorcerer.

Tony, if I actually got to cast a lot more spells per day as I did with a sorcerer in 3e, I'd be ok with it. But between Arcane Recovery/Ritual Casting vs. Sorcery Slot conversion (and the opportunity cost of metamagic) it just doesn't work out that way. :/

 

[Eric V]

If you were houseruling sorcery points (and nothing else) how many extra sorcery points would it take to get sorcerers to the proper level of effectiveness?

What if, instead of adding points, you did something like: Your sorcery points replenish on a short rest. Any points spent converting to spell slots, however, are lost until after a long rest.

 

[Minigiant]

Tony, if I actually got to cast a lot more spells per day as I did with a sorcerer in 3e, I'd be ok with it. But between Arcane Recovery/Ritual Casting vs. Sorcery Slot conversion (and the opportunity cost of metamagic) it just doesn't work out that way. :/

What kind of crazy Sorcerer is learning spells that can be rituals? Sorcerer even in 3e didn't have enough Spells Known for some of them.


Just look at the 1st levels (italics are actually on the sorcerer list):

Alarm- Nope
Comprehend Languages- Maybe at high levels
Detect Magic- Sure
Detect Poison and Disease- Nope
Find Familiar- Meh
Identify- Nope
Illusory Script- Nope
Purify Food and Drink- Nope
Speak with Animals- Nope
Tenser’s Floating Disk- Maybe
Unseen Servant- Maybe

Most sorcerers if they even had access to these would not learn most of them. Outside of the two they can know, a smart sorcerer would not have enough known spells to even bother with them until high levels. When you know just 6 spells, you aren't "permanently" knowing many spells a wizard wont prepare.

That's one of the differences.
Wizards might have the weird and obscure spells. Sorcerers typically don't.

 

[Eric V]

My point was that the wizard can cast spells as rituals, in addition to his normal (i.e. same as sorcerer) allotment, and in addition to slots regained through arcane recovery. Taking that into consideration, the wizard ends up casting a comparable # of spells per day as the sorcerer.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

What if, instead of adding points, you did something like: Your sorcery points replenish on a short rest. Any points spent converting to spell slots, however, are lost until after a long rest.

I would probably like the results of that (might be a tad overpowered, depending on how high one values a wizard's features), but it's a tad bit messy for me. Having to keep track of where the sorcery points went would be a bit of a mess.

(To clarify: by "mess" I just mean it adds a new mechanic. I hate adding new mechanics unless I absolutely feel it is necessary.)

 

[Minigiant]

My point was that the wizard can cast spells as rituals, in addition to his normal (i.e. same as sorcerer) allotment, and in addition to slots regained through arcane recovery. Taking that into consideration, the wizard ends up casting a comparable # of spells per day as the sorcerer.

Really depends on how many rituals your ritualist casts a day. I rarely see more than 2 rituals a day outside of a daily alarm or tiny hut spell. Most rituals are situational.

With the sorcerer's extra cantrip, it comes out to about a tie.

 

[Eric V]

Really depends on how many rituals your ritualist casts a day. I rarely see more than 2 rituals a day outside of a daily alarm or tiny hut spell. Most rituals are situational.

With the sorcerer's extra cantrip, it comes out to about a tie.

I confess, I don't understand how an extra cantrip affects spells cast/day, but maybe there's something I'm unaware of.

And yes, maybe it comes out to the same...but there's no opportunity cost for the wizard, and a huge one for the sorcerer. Every time the sorcerer uses sorcery points to create more slots, that's less slots available for metamagic. Wizard doesn't have to make such a choice.

 

[TrippyHippy]

Draconic Sorcerers can follow a path towards turning themselves into actual Dragons, I've noted. They just need to finish off by casting Wish at high levels.

Wizards are mostly scholarly and manipulate magical forces, and usually have a lot more versatility and adaptability, but they can ever really become magical in an innate sense. That's the role of a Sorcerer.

 

[Minigiant]

I confess, I don't understand how an extra cantrip affects spells cast/day, but maybe there's something I'm unaware of.

And yes, maybe it comes out to the same...but there's no opportunity cost for the wizard, and a huge one for the sorcerer. Every time the sorcerer uses sorcery points to create more slots, that's less slots available for metamagic. Wizard doesn't have to make such a choice.

The extra cantrip means an extra attack cantrip for bypassing resist/immune, an extra effect available for attack cantrip, another defense cantrip, or another utility cantrip.

Lower chance of opportunity cost is the wizard's thing in 5th edition. A wizard is more like to have the right spell. However wizards can't anything extra with their spells when they have the right spell if that spell isn't from their school.

Lower overall opportunity cost is the sorcerer's game. The sorcerer might not have the right spell always but they can boost a spell that is close enough. And if they do have the right spell, they can boost it more.

The family restaurant vs the specialty steakhouse. One of them is better depending if you want steak or fish.

If both wizard and sorcerer are down to 1st level spells but need thunder damage. The wizard can only fire 2 chromatic orbs over 2 turns. A sorcerer can do twin it or empower it for the same damage and slots/points in one turn.

 

[UnadvisedGoose445]

Draconic Sorcerers can follow a path towards turning themselves into actual Dragons, I've noted. They just need to finish off by casting Wish at high levels.

Wizards are mostly scholarly and manipulate magical forces, and usually have a lot more versatility and adaptability, but they can ever really become magical in an innate sense. That's the role of a Sorcerer.

Curious, do you just mean by casting Wish to actually turn them into the Dragon? Cause it can't replicate the 9th level spell Shapechange or anything. And then you have to worry about weird DM fiat or never being able to cast the spell again (possibly).