Extra Spell

[Thanee]

It would allow a Sorcerer from a remote arctic land to choose a spell like Firebrand from the Spell Compendium or Stars of Arvandor from the Book of Exalted Deeds, even if the Sorcerer would not normally know anything regarding those spells in the campaign. Remember that not all campaigns allow all spells from all resources that have been printed for the D&D game.

This is something I find rather funny, BTW. It implies, that a player can pick a spell from a source that is not allowed into the campaign by the DM. I somehow doubt that will work often.

Bye
Thanee

 

[jasin]

As a side remark: what if the player in question wanted to take Extra Spell to have his duskblade learn cure moderate wounds (so he could double as a field medic) or fear (so he could have a horrifying battlefield presence)? Would that be nearly as problematic as taking wraithstrike?

 

[Thanee]

Certainly not (from a balance pov), since Wraithstrike is one rather excessive little spell.

From a rules pov it's simply not possible, though. Nothing a DM cannot house rule, however.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Votan]

This is one case where I think the FAQ got it wrong.

1) The FAQ interpretation is contra the benefits of a nearly identically worded feat, Expanded Knowledge. The only difference is one feat is explicit where another is silent. IMHO, the silent spaces in the rules are meant to be the purview of the DM- if nothing else, they should be interpreted as per their nearest analogue. I would love to see the FAQ rationale for the difference.

I think here, silence can be informative. If a feat alters the default rules it needs to state it (Exapnded knowledge) but, if it does not, then of course the feat is silent.

For example, Combat Reflexes does not specificy that you need to make a successful melee to hit roll on your attacks of opportunity. This is not because they auto-hit but because the standard rules apply.

That being said, when applied to Sorcerers, the ability of a sorcerer to research spells not on their default list and the PHB wording means that the feat might just work for them. The Customer Service ruling seems to say "Do what you want in your campaign". Later feat structures explicitly point out what the feat changes in terms of rules but this feat is badly worded.

In this case, ambigiuous wording, I honestly do not think that there really is a RAW -- you can reasonably read the feat two ways. The FAQ clarified which way to read it, but you need the FAQ to make this conclusion as the text of the feat will go in circles forever.

 

[Thanee]

Later feat structures explicitly point out what the feat changes in terms of rules...

Complete Divine came before Complete Arcane, and has a feat with a very explicit wording (Arcane Disciple).

...but this feat is badly worded.

I don't think it is (apart from the really pointless sentence about wizards and what they might use the feat for, noone will use it for that).

The learning rules in the PHB are badly worded. The feat just builds on those.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Votan]

Complete Divine came before Complete Arcane, and has a feat with a very explicit wording (Arcane Disciple).

True, but that feat was trying to do somehting complicated and, therefore, needed this extra wording to be read. Ironically, so did Extra Spell but that wasn't as instantly obvious.

I don't think it is (apart from the really pointless sentence about wizards and what they might use the feat for, noone will use it for that).

The learning rules in the PHB are badly worded. The feat just builds on those.

My personal theory is that they were playing with the reader. I wonder if we can make some naive wizard player completely waste a feat? By adding this language, they actually forced people to ask the question "What do they mean by that? It can't possibly be the direct reading of the feat? Not in a book that also contains Collegiate Wizard?"

But that pointless sentance about what wizards could do with the feat, easily avoided by "This feat is for Spontaneous Casters only" as a disclaimer, can be highly annoying in practice. In particular, it is the best argument for the ability to go outside of the class lsit as one is forced to wonder what sorts of spells could not be normally learned or researched?

Because of that wonder about that sentance (is this mocking flavor text or actual rules, if the latter then the feat does seem to allow for spells off of the list but I beleive it is the former) the feat is uninterpretable without outside information.

 

[Dinkeldog]

Moderator's Note:

Okay everyone, let's start cooling off a bit. Remember that implicit in the ruleset is that there is room for interpretation and allow other people the latitude to make rulings for their games. Moving forward, I would like to see more responses phrased as, "I would allow this (or wouldn't allow this) because..." rather than "You should allow this (or shouldn't allow this) because..."

/Moderator's Note (and have a great day and discussion)
Dinkeldog

 

[wildstarsreach]

Below is the response that I just received. I somehow am beginning to believe that customer service is not reading what I send.

Response (Sam S.) 01/02/2007 09:07 AM
Hi again James,

The feat works the same way for all classes. It is a bad choice for classes that already know all the spells on their class spell list like Clerics, Druids, Duskblades, Beguilers, and others. Just like Martial Weapon Proficiency is a bad choice for any class that is already proficient with all martial weapons.


Take Care and Good Gaming!

 

[IcyCool]

Below is the response that I just received. I somehow am beginning to believe that customer service is not reading what I send.

That answer makes perfect sense to me. I'd be worried that I agree with CustServ, but hey, even a stopped clock is right twice a day, neh?

I'm in the crowd of "this feat lets you learn an extra spell from your class list."

 

[wildstarsreach]

Here is what I just received:

Subject
FAQ Submission

Discussion Thread
Response (Sam S.) 01/02/2007 09:22 AM
Hi again,

Forgive me for that one, as I misunderstood why you had a problem with the Duskblade taking the Extra Spell feat. The answer still stands, James. The Duskblade cannot choose spells outside their spell list. It is just the way the rules work and this ruling has been passed down by the people who make the rules.


Take Care and Good Gaming!

I'm not happy so I guess I have to lump it.