Falcon and winter solider

[Morrus]

You mention that this sort of rage-fueled violence isn't anything new, especially with soldiers, and that's true. But this sort of behavior is always considered against the rules of engagement and crimes of war. It is not okay, whether it's DeCap America John Walker or real American soldiers in the Middle East. Sometimes real soldiers get punished for this sort of behavior, sometimes its swept under the rug. Often depends on how visible the behavior was to Americans back home.

This isn't a war zone. This is a city in another country at peace where he just decapitated somebody in public. He'd be arrested and put on trial. No country in the world would do otherwise. The Americans literally have to launch a military incursion into a sovereign territory to forcibly extract him if they want him back now.*

*obviously that won't happen because it's a superhero TV show; so maybe we should all just stop comparing it to reality, because it isn't.

 

[billd91]

This isn't a war zone. This is a city in another country at peace where he just decapitated somebody in public. He'd be arrested and put on trial. No country in the world would do otherwise. The Americans literally have to launch a military incursion into a sovereign territory to forcibly extract him if they want him back now.*

oh, you innocent summer child...

 

[Dire Bare]

This isn't a war zone. This is a city in another country at peace where he just decapitated somebody in public. He'd be arrested and put on trial. No country in the world would do otherwise. The Americans literally have to launch a military incursion into a sovereign territory to forcibly extract him if they want him back now.*

*obviously that won't happen because it's a superhero TV show; so maybe we should all just stop comparing it to reality, because it isn't.

No, it's not a warzone. But Walker is a soldier and agent of the U.S. military, and the GRC. He's authorized to hunt down and deal with the terrorists of the Flag-Smashers, likely with lethal force authorized. And he was just in a battle where super-soldiers were trying to kill him, and did kill his friend and partner. It's not terribly different from what soldiers sometimes do in warzones, and it's even lampshaded in the episode when Walker and Hoskins are discussing the ethics of taking the serum and reference the "things they actually did" to earn their medals.

The government of Latvia isn't likely to be happy with the situation, but I doubt they'll try to arrest and try Walker. The government of the guy Walker killed, likewise. I think that's a reaction I'd expect from real-world governments in similar situations.

 

[Morrus]

The government of Latvia isn't likely to be happy with the situation, but I doubt they'll try to arrest and try Walker. The government of the guy Walker killed, likewise. I think that's a reaction I'd expect from real-world governments in similar situations.

That's just not how things work. Soldiers don't get to rampage around the world decapitating people, whatever the movies tell you. I promise you.

No, this is a clear narrative signal he's gone bad. Dunno if he'll go full rogue, but he's a bad guy now (maybe the bad guy of the show?) Falcon and Bucky will now be opposed to him, and can't not be. I feel like he's more the focus than, say, Power Broker, who is kinda just a background McGuffin to this story.

No, it's not a warzone. But Walker is a soldier and agent of the U.S. military, and the GRC. He's authorized to hunt down and deal with the terrorists of the Flag-Smashers, likely with lethal force authorized.

Authorised by who?

(Of course, the international legal status of superheroes is glossed over in comics, for good reasons -- but this guy is more a soldier than a superhero)

The only valid authorization I can think of offhand would be the Sekovia (sp?) Accords, which are, I think, an international treaty? I guess maybe that does authorize him in Latvia, and if they say so in the show, I'll hold up my hands and admit I was wrong. But I don't think that's where this show is taking this.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

The only valid authorization I can think of offhand would be the Sekovia (sp?) Accords, which are, I think, an international treaty? I guess maybe that does authorize him in Latvia, and if they say so in the show, I'll hold up my hands and admit I was wrong. But I don't think that's where this show is taking this.

A big problem we have in trying to guess or figure this out is we do not have enough information yet about all the changes to the world order that happened in the 5 years half the population was missing. Sure, there are references or hints here and there, but the fact Walker leads GRC police/troops? on these raiding missions says a lot about which country seems to have the most control over this international body. If the GRC is like the UN, but more militarized, the majority of the world's countries would have had to approve it and it's global authority, similar to how the Sokovia Accords had to be approved by the world's governments. So maybe he will have to go before a World Court or something similar to what we have in the real world?

 

[Morrus]

A big problem we have in trying to guess or figure this out is we do not have enough information yet about all the changes to the world order that happened in the 5 years half the population was missing. Sure, there are references or hints here and there, but the fact Walker leads GRC police/troops? on these raiding missions says a lot about which country seems to have the most control over this international body. If the GRC is like the UN, but more militarized, the majority of the world's countries would have had to approve it and it's global authority, similar to how the Sokovia Accords had to be approved by the world's governments. So maybe he will have to go before a World Court or something similar to what we have in the real world?

I guess? Its kinda unclear. I figure we'll find out in the next couple of weeks.

 

[tomBitonti]

I mean, clearly the show thinks it’s wrong. That’s what the audience of phone cameras is for. I don’t know the character from Adam, but he’s very clearly telegraphed narratively as going bad due to the serum. There’s no grey wiggle room there. Unless there’s some weird twist coming, that’s the story they’re telling here.

(then again, Marvel doesn’t think Wanda is a supervillain, so what do I know?)

Was the breakdown due to the serum? The serum may have helped to push him over the edge, but he seemed to be about to break even without the serum. What the serum did was to keep him in the fight. The serum made the fall deeper.
TomB

 

[Dire Bare]

That's just not how things work. Soldiers don't get to rampage around the world decapitating people, whatever the movies tell you. I promise you.

No, this is a clear narrative signal he's gone bad. Dunno if he'll go full rogue, but he's a bad guy now (maybe the bad guy of the show?) Falcon and Bucky will now be opposed to him, and can't not be. I feel like he's more the focus than, say, Power Broker, who is kinda just a background McGuffin to this story.



Authorised by who?

(Of course, the international legal status of superheroes is glossed over in comics, for good reasons -- but this guy is more a soldier than a superhero)

The only valid authorization I can think of offhand would be the Sekovia (sp?) Accords, which are, I think, an international treaty? I guess maybe that does authorize him in Latvia, and if they say so in the show, I'll hold up my hands and admit I was wrong. But I don't think that's where this show is taking this.

Walker is a US soldier, but he's also an agent of the international organization, the GRC, which seems to be a stand-in for an amped-up UN. I've begun to notice a symbol associated with the GRC in the end-credits, an eye within a triangle . . . .

Walker is an authorized anti-terrorist agent of an international governmental organization with policing powers, working in concert with local authorities. We don't quite have that in the real-world . . . but if we had soldiers working within an intergovernmental task force to hunt down and thwart terrorists by any means necessary . . . we come close to that, and it's not hard to imagine such a thing coming together.

Right now we have soldiers (US, European, and others) in developing countries doing good things . . . . and bad things like Walker. For this sort of violence to migrate into the more developed nations . . . isn't a huge stretch, IMO. The rise of fascism and nationalism world-wide, the rise of immigration, and anti-immigration sentiment (very much paralleled by the grievances of the Flag-Smashers) . . . .

It's also not unprecedented in genre literature and films. This whole series isn't really in the spy genre . . . but it borrows a lot of tropes and feels from those types of stories. Walker is like an a-hole version of James Bond, licensed to kill.

 

[Morrus]

Was the breakdown due to the serum? The serum may have helped to push him over the edge, but he seemed to be about to break even without the serum. What the serum did was to keep him in the fight. The serum made the fall deeper.
TomB

I feel like the theme of the show is that the serum breaks people.

 

[Morrus]

Walker is an authorized anti-terrorist agent of an international governmental organization with policing powers, working in concert with local authorities.

Is he? I mean, I'm not saying he's not, and that organization isn't that, but if he is, and it is, the show has not made that clear to me.

Walker is like an a-hole version of James Bond, licensed to kill.

Yeah Bond's license to kill. That's equally silly. If MI6 sent an agent to America with a 'license to kill' ... I seem to remember cops chasing Bond a lot when he went to America.



(But of course, if we all agree it's just silly, we're good. It's just that people seem to be arguing it's realistic).