FAVORED SOUL: This doesn't seem right...

[Goblyns Hoard]

If KN(religion) covers what you know about what your selected diety is like, which of the other dieties it gets on with, what clerics of that diety will be like - then absolutely they should get it. It doesn't matter whether you come by that information through studious research or through divine inspiration - you still KNOW it.

Or does a diety expect their Favoured Souls to be ignorant of everything about them???

 

[DreadArchon]

Or does a diety expect their Favoured Souls to be ignorant of everything about them???

For Favored Souls to not be readily able to learn about other religions is weird, but I usually houserule (as do most DM's as far as I know) that a character can know about obvious personal things without being trained in the appropriate Knowledge. For example, by RAW, a human isn't normally allowed to know what kinds of things are edible for humans (and thus must starve to death or try to eat thumb tacks or something) because dietary information for a creature type requires a Knowledge: Local check of around 21 and you can't make Knowledge checks above 10 untrained. So I usually extend this to Religion too: you may not know much about other religions, but you automatically know most details about your own religion. I think that's how it's supposed to work for the Favored Soul.

 

[Nail]

For Favored Souls to not be readily able to learn about other religions is weird, but I usually houserule (as do most DM's as far as I know) that a character can know about obvious personal things without being trained in the appropriate Knowledge.

If you wanted to model a Cleric without knowledge of other religions, could you do it with the RAW?

Sure. You'd just give the cleric no ranks in the skill.

Making Know(Religion) not a class skill for Favored Souls is a design error, and limits their roles in a way that adds nothing and detracts much.

 

[werk]

Making Know(Religion) not a class skill for Favored Souls is a design error, and limits their roles in a way that adds nothing and detracts much.

Could it be...El Guapo...that Making Know(Religion) not a class skill for Favored Souls is NOT a design error, and limits their roles in a way that adds nothing and detracts much?

 

[Nail]

Could it be...El Guapo...that Making Know(Religion) not a class skill for Favored Souls is NOT a design error, and limits their roles in a way that adds nothing and detracts much?

Nope.

 

[Corsair]

Does a Bard have good spells compared to a Favored Soul?

Does a Beguiler have good BAB compared to a Favored Soul?

Is this the worst basis for an argument ever? Next you'll be telling us that fighters are overpowered compared to wizards because of their BAB and HD.

 

[Felon]

Exactly that. They are wholly divine. They don't work to become divine, it just happens.

A cleric with knowledge: religion knows details about all religions. He knows this because (as I see it) in his intensive studies to become closer to his god, he learns about how others have done so in other times and places, and even with other gods.

A favored soul has no need to do this. He doesn't study to become closer to his god, it just happens. No study is implied or needed, so the skill is not on the class list. Now, as to why Knowledge:arcana is on the class list, I don't know.

That would fall under learning a cross class skill. The class itself not encouraging learning about other religions because the character is the Deity's favored soul. The jealous god is not interested in the favored follower knowing too much about other gods. Also knowledge religion lets you know what kind of atrocities your god has committed in the past and as such, the less the character knows the better when a diety favors a soul an alignment step away. A favored soul is more likely to get a slanted view on what Knowledge (religion) would normally cover.

The god gives the character divine magic, teaches the character all sorts of wierd magical stuff, but convienently leaves out anything dealing with the competition.

While these are acceptable rationales for why some favored souls wouldn't invest ranks in KS (religion), they are poor rationales for why it's simply off the class skill list altogether. It's pretty safe to say many favored souls would be just as involved in religious affairs as any cleric, and possess a comparable level of erudition, but without it being on the class list, that door is closed to all of them.

 

[Felon]

Could it be...El Guapo...that Making Know(Religion) not a class skill for Favored Souls is NOT a design error, and limits their roles in a way that adds nothing and detracts much?

It may not be a typo, but it sure is a design error...because it detracts much from the class.

 

[Thurbane]

While I agree with you about the Sorcerer vs Wizard point KarinsDad, the check on the Favored Soul other than its lack of turn undead is.... TWO CASTING STATS. This alone balances it. Having to have both wisdom and charisma (useless for the class) is horrible.



Sereg

Not too bad if you go down the road of Favored Soul/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge, though...

 

[Jdvn1]

While I agree with you about the Sorcerer vs Wizard point KarinsDad, the check on the Favored Soul other than its lack of turn undead is.... TWO CASTING STATS. This alone balances it. Having to have both wisdom and charisma (useless for the class) is horrible.

That's only if you consider the Favored Soul a casting class. As a player of three Favored Souls, I don't consider that a very viable option. Better, I think, is to make a Favored Soul into a support fighter.

Spontaneous Healer could work,(especially with PHB II alt class ability)...but will it be satisfying to be the Heal bot, especially when a cleric can perform the role almost as well and still have slots devoted to other useful spells like Protection from Evil or Augury.

Warrior...beyond the fact that Favoured Souls do not get heavy armor, the problem with this is you wind up selecting spells in your precociously few spells known that will wind up not being cast as often due to the Extend metamagic feat. Likewise a cleric can play the buffed up warrior role just as well, and spontaneously heal...the single minded Favoured Soul...probably not.

The Buffer. I just do not see a lot spontaneous casters go this route...bard excepted. It seems a viable archetype but how much fun would it be to play it?

Likewise having 3 good saves is nice...but not the end all be all...especially when the cleric has 2 good saves. There are so many ways to boost Saving Throws that any character that wishes to do so can find a way to minimize his weakness.

I do a mix of these, actually.

Healer: I keep a small variety of cure spells (I don't need all of them, since I get so many spells per day to make up for it), and that makes me a useful healer. It's not my primary function, but I can cure people enough to keep them from dying, and I can do it often enough to be better at it than a Cleric.

Buffer: Most of my spells are buff spells. I skip spells with saving throws by having Wisdom as my dump stat for a high Charisma. I give boosts to the party whenever they need it, and then hopefully I won't need to use as many Cure spells later. Moreover, I buff myself and I become...

Warrior: Since I'm only focusing on one of my two casting stats, I have combat stats be my next highest stats. Along with my stat-boosting spells, I'm a viable fighter (ranged or melee, depending on how I build him). I'm not shy with my buff spells, so I can keep this up for a decent amount of time.

Alternatively, they could blow off most spells with saving throws and go high Charisma and lower Wisdom. In that case, they would have more spells per day than a Cleric:

18th level Cleric with 26 Wisdom has 6 8 8 8 8 6 6 5 5 3
18th level Soul with 26 Charisma has 9 8 8 8 8 7 7 6 5 3

That's the way to go. I actually have one no-save attack spell, but I focus on buffing spells.