FAVORED SOUL: This doesn't seem right...

[pawsplay]

Not too bad if you go down the road of Favored Soul/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge, though...

How are you going to do that? Neither class has Knowledge (religion).

 

[Felon]

How are you going to do that? Neither class has Knowledge (religion).

Well, you just muddle through with cross-class ranks until, what, 10th level? I also have heard of some Eberron feat that makes all Knowledge Skills class skills.

 

[Seeten]

They only need a high Wisdom for DCs.

They could get away with a relatively low Charisma. For example, 14 at first level and with a +6 item, 20 at high level in order to cast spells from each spell level. The only other thing Charisma does is add bonus spells per day. Even without a high Charisma, they still have about as many spells per day as a Cleric.

18th level Cleric with 26 Wisdom has 6 8 8 8 8 6 6 5 5 3
18th level Soul with 20 Charisma has 9 8 7 7 7 7 6 5 4 3

When one considers how many divine spells are typically blown off as Cure spells, it's easy to see that there is not a huge difference here.


Alternatively, they could blow off most spells with saving throws and go high Charisma and lower Wisdom. In that case, they would have more spells per day than a Cleric:

18th level Cleric with 26 Wisdom has 6 8 8 8 8 6 6 5 5 3
18th level Soul with 26 Charisma has 9 8 8 8 8 7 7 6 5 3


The point is that yes, this is a balancing factor. But, it is not a real big one. They are not forced to have real high scores in both of these stats. It is not nearly as big as spontaneous metamagic.

Just thought I'd join in and mention I completely disagree with Karinsdad on pretty much every point he has raised in this thread.

I also disagree that spontaneous metamagic is better than massive arrays of options that Clerics get, and I vehemently disagree that 3 good saves is worth writing home about. Monks get 3 good saves and still suck, for example.

Having less spells per day, AND having less spells known = the suck.

I cant imagine considering Favored Souls more powerful than a Cleric.

 

[KarinsDad]

I also disagree that spontaneous metamagic is better than massive arrays of options that Clerics get, and I vehemently disagree that 3 good saves is worth writing home about. Monks get 3 good saves and still suck, for example.

Monks don't get spells. Apples and Oranges.

Having less spells per day, AND having less spells known = the suck.

I cant imagine considering Favored Souls more powerful than a Cleric.

Spontaneous Metamagic is huge. It allows characters to choose a superior option based on the situation virtually every time. What sucks is having to prep spells and prepping wrong.

In our last gaming session, two Warmages threw some serious spells (one was Meteor Swarm and the other Horrid Wilting) at our PCs during the surprise round.

My Cleric PC had an Antimagic Field up, so the spells fizzled.

I rolled a one for initiative.

Both Warmages beat my PC's initiative.

One threw an Empowered 15D6 Orb of Cold at my PC on round one (about 70 points of damage). Antimagic Fields do not stop Orb spells.

The other threw a Maximized 15D6 Orb of Acid at my PC one round one (90 points of damage).

If those spells had not had spontaneous metamagic, my PC would have survived (assuming she made the save for massive damage if either of them got 50 or more points of damage).

Ditto for Spontaneous Silent spells, Spontaneous Still spells, etc. Spontaneous metamagic is a major difference between life and death, much more so than a handful of extra spells per day when PCs have 50+ spells already at high level.

PCs can only cast one or two spells per round. Having a few extra spells is white noise when compared to picking out an optimal spell for the situation as compared to a suboptimal one.

 

[Nail]

If those spells had not had spontaneous metamagic, my PC would have survived ...

Dead but not gone? (curious)

 

[KarinsDad]

Dead but not gone? (curious)

Well, the campaign ended (or at least this set of sessions). After that battle, the PCs saved the Queen Regent and the Royal Mage. The succession appears to be in good hands.

The very first night of the campaign, the PC's Barbarian (follower) husband died.
The very last night of the campaign, the PC died.

There seems to be a type of poetic justice there.

Note: the DM generally does not allow resurrections; however, the PC is a high level Cleric of Mystra. So, we'll see. Her Sorcerer Cohort can Teleport her back to her Temple where the Sorcerer Cohort's Cohort (a 15th level Cleric) could resurrect her. It depends on whether we want to continue that campaign or not. The problem is the fact that at that level, it tends to be a nuclear exchange. Whomever wins init, wins.

 

[Felon]

Antimagic Fields do not stop Orb spells.

Help me out here, why don't AMF's stop orb spells?

"An invisible barrier surrounds you and moves with you. The space within this barrier is impervious to most magical effects, including spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. Likewise, it prevents the functioning of any magic items or spells within its confines.

An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it. Time spent within an antimagic field counts against the suppressed spell’s duration."

 

[Jdvn1]

Help me out here, why don't AMF's stop orb spells?

"An invisible barrier surrounds you and moves with you. The space within this barrier is impervious to most magical effects, including spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. Likewise, it prevents the functioning of any magic items or spells within its confines.

An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it. Time spent within an antimagic field counts against the suppressed spell’s duration."

For the same reason that AMF doesn't stop Wall of Stone. Duration: Instantaneous.

Orb of Acid creates a real ball of acid and shoots it from your palm. The ball of acid isn't magical. As long as the caster is outside the AMF, the AMF won't stop Instantaneous effects.

 

[Jdvn1]

Having less spells per day, AND having less spells known = the suck.

I cant imagine considering Favored Souls more powerful than a Cleric.

I'm confused. Less spells per day? Favored Souls have more spells per day, but fewer spells known.

It's roughly equivalent to Sor vs Wiz.

The FS (in a similar manner to the Sor) only picks certain kinds of spells. They can cast them more times per day, so they're better at that sort of casting.

The analogy breaks down much farther than that, mainly because FS's suck at casting. That's okay, though, because the FS and Clr are more martial than Sor and Wiz. So, maybe I could say, "Sor is like a Wiz but better at blasting magicks (at least, I assume that's what most people would say about Sor's)." Then I could also say, "FS is like a Clr but better at buffing magicks. (or curing or whatnot)"

 

[KarinsDad]

Orb of Acid creates a real ball of acid and shoots it from your palm. The ball of acid isn't magical. As long as the caster is outside the AMF, the AMF won't stop Instantaneous effects.

Almost.

It won't stop Instantaneous Conjuration Creation effects (which are no longer magical the moment they are created).

Creation: A creation spell manipulates matter to create an object or creature in the place the spellcaster designates (subject to the limits noted above). If the spell has a duration other than instantaneous, magic holds the creation together, and when the spell ends, the conjured creature or object vanishes without a trace. If the spell has an instantaneous duration, the created object or creature is merely assembled through magic. It lasts indefinitely and does not depend on magic for its existence.

It will stop other Instantaneous effects like an Evocation Fireball.


And of course, those pesky Fire Orbs are just sitting around indefinitely, waiting for little children to play with them.

Not one of WotC's better rules.