Favored Souls & Domains

[Thanee]

I've been experimenting with some means of adding Domains to them without unbalancing them.

You could let them select two appropriate domains and only add the domain spells to their class spell list. Also allow them to learn the domain special ability as a feat.

That wouldn't be unbalancing, but would allow to add domain flavor to a character.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Shin Okada]

Goodness me, that was the opposite of my thinking when I read the class! I've had a spontaneous divine caster in my campaign for years (the 'prophet'), but it was much weaker than the favoured soul and still kicked ass.

How? I am curious. As I have always been thinking Favored Soul to be very a very weak class.

What kind of advantage do they have over clerics? Clerics are better healer. And better magic item creator (thus, spells per day is easily compensated by taking Scribe Scroll feat). And better at dealing with undeads. Can use Divine feats. Can have 2 domains.

 

[Thanee]

Could someone who's played a Favored Soul for a while comment on how they compare to a normal Cleric in 3.5?

Yep!

The Favored Soul is clearly on the same level as the Cleric. The class is *definitely* not weak.

As many others, I guess you might not realize how powerful spontaneous casting really is (it certainly depends a bit on playing style, too). The FS is a much better spellcaster than the Cleric (despite MAD), especially since the class does not suffer from a low number of Spells Known as the Sorcerer does (compared to the Wizard). The Cleric spell list is much tighter than the Wizard spell list and having 3+ spells from each level is more than enough. You'll just have to pick a good spell selection, but that's not even close to the difficulties a Sorcerer has with picking spells. The lack of Domains is somewhat alleviated by the nice feats (WF, WS) and the resistances they get. The lack of Turn Undead (and thus Divine Might, which would be really fitting for a FS, especially since they need a good Cha, anyways) is their biggest downside. Having three good saves doesn't really hurt, tho.

It's a very fun class to play, just give it a try!

A good way to play the class is as a melee combat oriented character (decent physical attributes, but overall a good spread, as all attributes are important for the FS, combat feats, etc.).

HERE you can see an example 12th lvl FS (1st reply), which is built that way, and which I think is a fairly good (fun, diverse, not weak ) character.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Hypersmurf]

The lack of Domains is somewhat alleviated by the nice feats (WF, WS) and the resistances they get. The lack of Turn Undead (and thus Divine Might, which would be really fitting for a FS, especially since they need a good Cha, anyways) is their biggest downside.

How does a level of Cleric (two domains, Turn Undead for powering Divine Feats, a few first level spells) look? You lose a point of BAB and a spellcasting level, in a class that's already a level behind the straight Cleric in spellcasting... does it make a favourable trade?

-Hyp.

 

[Thanee]

That might be worth it (Turn Undead only to fuel Divine Feats, of course), but that's not really a matter when comparing the Cleric and the Favored Soul class.

However, it's certainly good to note, that this option is available.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Clerics are better healer.

Since CD reintroduced Vigor, I disagree. FS can spontaneously cast Vigor (which is MUCH more cost effective than converting Cure spells, especially if you also have Extend Spell, which is a great feat for FS, anyways (to make better use of all those free spell slots in the evening with those nice 1h/lvl spells)) and learn 1-2 Cure spells (later Heal) for in-combat healing. What else would you need? Also, the Cleric needs to drop prepared spells and thus limit the selection for the day, while the FS always has the full range of (known) spells available. Of course, this selection is smaller than knowing *all* spells, as the Cleric does, but compared with the actual prepared spells (and these often look very similar for a Cleric, anyways), it's a very good spell range what the FS gets.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Shin Okada]

As many others, I guess you might not realize how powerful spontaneous casting really is (it certainly depends a bit on playing style, too). The FS is a much better spellcaster than the Cleric (despite MAD), especially since the class does not suffer from a low number of Spells Known as the Sorcerer does (compared to the Wizard). The Cleric spell list is much tighter than the Wizard spell list and having 3+ spells from each level is more than enough.

Hmm. I felt quite opposite. Wizards don't know all the spells in wizard class spell list. But Clerics do know all the cleric spells. So the difference of spells known between Cleric against FS is bigger than it's of Wizard against Sorcerer. Which becomes bigger if a DM introduces spells from various expansions.

On the other hand, Clerics can already cast more spells per day comparing to wizards. And FSs and Sorcerers cast same number of spells per day. Thus, difference in spells per day between Cleric against FS is smaller. And more. Clerics can cast cure/inflict spells spontaneously and thus has good flexibility already. Thus, the impact of sorcerer-type spellcasting is not that much big.

And in my experience, spell per day can be easily compensated by taking Scribe Scroll feat, or by simply buying a lot of scrolls. As a cleric with Scribe Scroll feat can get twice as many scrolls comparing to FS, clerics tend to have more "spells per session" . My 10th-level cleric is carrying 70+ scrolls and thus can use all his spell slots for spells with saves and caster-level dependent ones.

Combining those facts, I can hardly imagine how a FS can be better caster than a Cleric.

 

[Shin Okada]

Since CD reintroduced Vigor, I disagree. FS can spontaneously cast Vigor (which is MUCH more cost effective than converting Cure spells, especially if you also have Extend Spell, which is a great feat for FS, anyways (to make better use of all those free spell slots in the evening with those nice 1h/lvl spells)) and learn 1-2 Cure spells (later Heal) for in-combat healing. What else would you need? Also, the Cleric needs to drop prepared spells and thus limit the selection for the day, while the FS always has the full range of (known) spells available. Of course, this selection is smaller than knowing *all* spells, as the Cleric does, but compared with the actual prepared spells (and these often look very similar for a Cleric, anyways), it's a very good spell range what the FS gets.

Bye
Thanee

A cleric with Scribe Scroll feat (quite typical) can cure all the conditions via scrolls (as he can make them by himself). And usually, a party buys a Wand of Cure Light Wounds (or Vigor) for "between encounter" cures. In combat, divine casters should cast the biggest healing spell available. While clerics automatically know the highest-level curing spells (and heal), FS must take them individually.

 

[Thanee]

Hmm... I don't find Scribe Scroll to be a feasible "replacement" for the flexibility granted by spontaneous casting. Especially scrolls of mid-high level spells are fairly expensive and you simply cannot carry around enough of them to get to the same level of flexibility the FS has. And using up multiple scrolls every day can quickly render you broke. I'm mostly not talking about these spells, which are only rarely needed (scrolls are great for those), but more importantly those spells, which when you need them, you often need them multiple times for the party (i.e. Death Ward, Freedom of Movement). Preparing those often enough is not feasible for the Cleric usually (or IOW puts too high limits on their remaining selection), but the FS always has them available in large enough quantities.

But as I said initially, playing style is certainly also a factor in there, and one that is not so easy to consider.

About the highest level Cure spells... that's what the FS uses the switch spell option every two levels for, at least until Heal, then you don't need any Cure spells anymore.

About the Cleric vs Wizard spell list and Favored Soul vs Sorcerer spontaneous casting... IMHO, even knowing all the spells gives Cleric a weaker "spell knowledge" than what Wizards have, who typically only know a fraction of their spell list. That means, that there are very few "must-have" (lacking a better description) spells found in every spell level, and these few can easily be covered by a FS, plus some additional for added diversity. I really find it a lot easier to write up FS Spells Known than Sorcerer Spells Known.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Shin Okada]

But as I said initially, playing style is certainly also a factor in there, and one that is not so easy to consider.

I think so too. Our playgroup tend to challenge high-risk-high-return modules (or make such adventure by ourselves). The PCs of current campaign has killed Zagor (The Warlock of Firetop Mountain), broke-through the infamous Deathtrap Dungeon, slain the Snow Witch (Caverns of the Snow Witch) then now challenging the legendary "Tome of the Horrors". So, though traps and monsters are really tough, we are getting relatively good amount of money per encounter. Thus, both party cleric and wizard are holding not only all the situation-solving scrolls, but a lot of offensive & buff scrolls. It seems that there is no place for Sorcerer or FS in our party. I can't believe FS could handled all the wicked situations in those modules only with his limited spells known.

And, our party wizard and cleric enjoy using Wand of Raly's Mnemonic Enhancer (and other items such as Candle of Invocation). Thus, actually, tend to have more spells per day than Sorcerer or FS when situation is hot.