Fighter Prestige classes

[Mal Malenkirk]

Anyone else playing a dwarven defender? How is the best way to use defensive stance?

If the DM is just a little crafty you are going to have trouble using it.

Defensive stance is the least of the abilities of the defender from a PC point of view because you rarely get to use it.

Ideally you can use it efficiently when your party is on defense and all opponents must come to you through a single road. It's not a common situation. You could petition your DM for a "defend the castle" scenario and your PC could go defend the breach. You'll really have to lobby for your cause, otherwise I could see the DM setting up 10 sessions without giving you a single chance to go defensive. And he wouldn't even be doing this on purpose!

 

[Crothian]

Dwrven Defenders work good in parties with many missile weapons and spellcasters. The DD can possition himself in from and the enemies would have to get through him to get to the others. Out in the wide open, DD are at a dis advantage, but in dungeons nad other places of limited space, they can work very well.

 

[Ravellion]

Dwrven Defenders work good in parties with many missile weapons and spellcasters. The DD can possition himself in from and the enemies would have to get through him to get to the others. Out in the wide open, DD are at a dis advantage, but in dungeons nad other places of limited space, they can work very well.

Yeah, just open the door, stand in the opening and stay there, while the mages and archeres do their stuff.

Rav

 

[purple knight]

I am playing a dwarven defender now and have been extemely satisfied. True, a crafty DM can make it less effective, but you just have to play smart.

I have learned to let the charge come (Hold the line is a great feat for this) and let the melee begin. Usually, as I am the front line fighter, I am quickly surrounded anyway, and by this time the rest of the party has positioned itself to reduce enemy movement too much. Then, I assume "the stance".

Even if you hardly ever get to use the stance though, the bonus to armor class, d12 hit die, defensive awareness (uncanny dodge) and damage reduction are great. Last but not least, you get bonus to will saves, which is the achilles heel of most fighters.

 

[Artoomis]

On Dwarven Defender.

What a high-risk class to take. Con +4 while defending - yikes! Let's say you are at 12th level - you've got 24 extra hit points. Sounds pretty cool, right? But if you stand there until you are below 24 hit points, you'll collapse below zero if you stop defending. But wait, it gets worse. If you stick it out hoping for victory and you go down to, say, 12 hit points, then stop defending (or go down to -1), you instantly die. No save, no nothing - you lose the 24 hit points you had gained, and drop below -10, deader than a door nail.

This is even worse than barbarian rage, which can be argued continues even if the barabrian get reduced to -1 hit points while raging, giving at least some time for him to be rescued. A barbarian who needs healing to avoid dieing when coming out of a rage can move over to the healer, the Dwarven Defender who does the same dies before he reaches the healer because he loses his extra hit points as soon as he moves.

This is a great class if you intend to stand in place an die - you'll delay the enemy a good long while with DR, d12 hit die and the extra hit points. Also its a good class if you don't use the Defensive Stance very much - but that seems like a zero sum game - here's a really cool ability - but you may not want to use it because you may die.

Anyway - yeah, I think its a cool class, only the main class ability is kind of high risk - even more than the barbarian's rage.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

Well, the 24 extra hit points is better than nothing.

You would have been dead already if it weren't for them.

I guess you just have be aware of that before hand and get the heck out of dodge if the situation gets that bad.

--Argumentative Spikey

PS - Funny side note - the dwarven defender can't move while he is defending, but he get's a +4 dodge bonus while he is defending (and not moving).

 

[Artoomis]

Yeah - he's an awsome doger, even while his feet are planted.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

Yeah, just open the door, stand in the opening and stay there, while the mages and archeres do their stuff.

Works well against stupid and agressive monster. But these are often the low level monster. By the time you can be a defender you often fight smarter opposition. It's very rare that the PCs are in a position where they can afford to camp.

Personnaly, as a DM, If I see the the party setting up a defensive position I'll ask myself if the monsters/opponents need to attack them right now despite the higher risk. Are they that stupid? Do they feel an overwhelming urge to charge them through that door and be forced to fight one at a time? If not I'll move my monster out and set up a defensive position of my own.

If you are invading a dungeon, you are not the one who can afford to take defensive positions and let the opponents come to you. You can't choose the battlefield. That's the DM's game.

 

[purple knight]

The key to playing the dwarven defender is again--play smart. By letting the combat begin and waiting until the second or third round, most combatants are in the position they are going to stay in. Further, your allies are in position to deter the jump and go attacks because they will all get AOO.

Also, when you get the defender status, you have lots of hit points (my guy has 119, and I had a couple of boner rolls at various levels). It gives you a chance to gauge potential damage so you can get out before you drop below your bonus hps. Of course you cannot count for criticals sometimes, but that is part of the excitement of combat.

And always remember, the stance is generally worthless against creatures with reach, unless they accomodate you by "stepping up".

Last, the stance makes you harder to hit (see the above remark on the standing still dodge--don't think about it, just do it), which is always sweet.

Overall, I love this ability, it was just a learning curve on how best to implement it.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

I haven't read the dwarven defender in a while, but wouldn't the spiked chain thing with its 10' reach and yet useable up close and personal quirk, make it the weapon of choice for them. Add combat reflexes and expert tacticion and you'll slaughter things as they close on you. And since it is a 2 handed weapon you get that nice x1.5 str bonus to damage thing.

So if you can change that weapon focus to exotic weapon proficiency I'd go for it.