D&D 5E Fighter Survey Response

[Corpsetaker]

I reiterated my stance that the Battlemaster is what the Fighter should be. The Maneuvers system and superiority dice should be the baseline for the Fighter class (and really, many of the other melee classes) the same way that Spellcasting and spell slots ares the baseline for all the magic classes.

THIS!!! What I was hoping for in the Arcane Archer was a class that had it's own spell-list and at the same time, could benefit from some archery abilities using the superiority dice feature. It's almost like each subclass could have just been a class with it's own subclasses coming later.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Well, not quite. Extra attacks and extra ABI's/feats as well. Plus a fighting style a full level before any other martial class. Basically fighters are just a little be better than everyone else with the boring mechanical features. More attacks, better stats (or more feats), plus a little self healing and Action Surge to do whatever you want twice in one round.

See, I have a hard time counting extra attacks and extra ABI/feats as "Fighter stuff", because every other class gets ASI/feats, and most of the other weapon classes get extra attacks.

If you look at my original point, all the classes get something unique to their mechanics that defines that class. Rage is unique to Barbarians, and every Barbarian subclass has it. Bardic Inspiration is unique. Wildshape is unique. Ki is unique. Sneak Attack is unique. Invocations are unique. Metamagic is unique. Smite is unique. The only two that you might say don't have something unique is Cleric (because they share Channel Divinity with the Paladin) and the Wizard (because their "unique" bits are the cool extensions off the spellcasting system that every spellcasting class uses.)

Maneuvers and Superiority dice is the mechanical subsystem that is truly unique to the Fighter, and I would just love to see it embraced... and more importantly expanded upon. Because there is a metric TON of additional things you can do with it if you fully embrace it. People don't like the "bigger dice" that the BM gets as their high-level subclass features? Another subclass that uses Maneuvers and SDice doesn't have to give those as features and can instead give something else! Someone wants more powerful maneuvers that require two SDice to use? That can be done too!

The M/SDice system is primed for as much expansion and originality for martial characters as the spellcasting system is for spellcasters. The spellcasting system is so robust that they have now three levels of casting! 1/3rd casters, 1/2lf casters, and full casters, so there's no reason why you could expand the M/SDice system to get to that same level of flexibility.

 

[Caliban]

See, I have a hard time counting extra attacks and extra ABI/feats as "Fighter stuff", because every other class gets ASI/feats, and most of the other weapon classes get extra attacks.

Whether or not you have a hard time with it, they are things the fighter get more of than other classes. If you are using feats, then the extra ABI's give you access to more feats than any other class, and feats in this edition tend to be more powerful than in previous edition. Using feats, fighters can customize themselves more easily than other classes, outside of their archtypes.

That being said, I agree that it would have given the fighter more of a unique flavor if the Battlemaster superiority die mechanics had been part of the base class and shared by all their archtypes.

 

[Zardnaar]

I have stopped leaving feedback on UA surveys for a variety of reasons.

 

[Tony Vargas]

See, I have a hard time counting extra attacks and extra ABI/feats as "Fighter stuff", because every other class gets ASI/feats, and most of the other weapon classes get extra attacks.

Yeah, the fighter just gets more of 'em. It's not 'fighter stuff' 'til you have more of it than a non-fighter can.

Plus, Extra Attack synergizes with the fighter's one 'nice thing,' Action Surge.

But, Action Surge still isn't doing anything unique, it's just doing something, again, in the same turn.

Cleric (because they share Channel Divinity with the Paladin) and the Wizard (because their "unique" bits are the cool extensions off the spellcasting system that every spellcasting class uses.)

The Cleric has 17 spells in the PH that appear in no other casters' lists, the Wizard 33.

Maneuvers and Superiority dice is the mechanical subsystem that is truly unique to the Fighter, and I would just love to see it embraced... and more importantly expanded upon. Because there is a metric TON of additional things you can do with it if you fully embrace it.

It'd need a different chassis than the fighter base class, though.

The M/SDice system is primed for as much expansion and originality for martial characters as the spellcasting system is for spellcasters. The spellcasting system is so robust that they have now three levels of casting! 1/3rd casters, 1/2lf casters, and full casters, so there's no reason why you could expand the M/SDice system to get to that same level of flexibility.

The design space is there, certainly. 5e's very open that way, if you're willing to add new classes.

 

[Einlanzer0]

I reiterated my stance that the Battlemaster is what the Fighter should be. The Maneuvers system and superiority dice should be the baseline for the Fighter class (and really, many of the other melee classes) the same way that Spellcasting and spell slots ares the baseline for all the magic classes. And to throw that system by the wayside is just stupid.

If you add these four archetypes to the four Fighter archetypes we already have (Champion, Battlemaster, Eldritch Knight, Banneret) and you ask someone "What's the underlying base mechanical assumption that gives all Fighter their iconic identity regardless of subclass?" what is our answer currently?

Action Surge and Second Wind.

That's it.

All Barbarians have Rage; all Bards have Spellcasting and Bardic Inspiration; all Clerics have Spellcasting and Channel Divinity; all Druids have Spellcasting and Wildshape; all Monks have Ki; all Paladins have Spellcasting, Smite, and Channel Divinity; all Rangers have a lot of junk; all Rogues have Sneak Attack; all Sorcerers have Spellcasting and Metamagic; all Warlocks have Invocations, Patrons and Pacts; all Wizards have Spellcasting, Spellbooks, and non-prepared Ritual casting).

For Fighters though, they get a second action in a round and some self-healing. That's all. Every other meaningful mechanical feature for the Fighter currently is completely different for each and every single Martial Archetype. There is nothing the Fighter as a class has which I think is a really cool thing it gets to hang its hat on. Every single cool thing comes out of each individual subclass, and these four new ones are no different. Which I think sucks. Because it give the Fighter as a class no real identity.

Now I'm sure some people are happy with that, because they thinks Fighters should have no individual identity. Personally though, I think that just makes the Fighter class almost superfluous.

I'm one of those people that's fine with this, because I think your assertion is a bit of a red herring. I don't believe in the need for a class to have a single, unique, all-encompassing mechanic to justify its existence. This belief is what gave rise to their sad initial attempt at completely revising the Ranger with something that's conceptually way too specific for a theme as broad as the archetypal ranger. All that really matters with class design is that it's fairly balanced, fun to play, and does a decent job of executing a concept.

To me, it makes perfect sense that the fighter is a fairly generic class that is defined more by its subclass than it is by its parent class. In fact, I kind of wish more classes worked this way.

 

[cbwjm]

People might be interesting in the 'Arcane Archer Revisited' which has shown up on the DMs Guild. Two highlights are: Warlock Style spellcasting (4 slots at max level, maximum spell slot level 4), 2 ranged weapon cantrips.

http://www.dmsguild.com/product/200144/Arcane-Archer-Revisited