Fighter/Wizard a good choice now! [3.5]

[Storminator]

And would a bard/fighter/EK work? I don't have the manual with me right now...but that guy can cast spells in light armour, at least.

Bard/PALADIN/EK baby, put that CHA score to work!

You need 7 levels of Bard tho.

PS

 

[d12]

Psion, that quote was drnuncheon, not me.

I refer merely to the fact that for the duration of the PrC, the class is getting 90% of wizard spell advancement and 100% BAB advancement. Being forced to make suboptimal choices beforehand is a factor, but as the numerous examples here have shown, one level of fighter and the remaining levels in wizard is more than sufficient, which in turn means that the conundrums that the character needs to go through to get there are not especially taxing.

Sure, but the HD is a d6 and feats are a total of 1 fighter feat. Plus the non-spellcasting level comes first. That's very important becuase it immediately sets the EK 2 levels behind his spellcasting friends. The druid, the wizard, the cleric have nothing to fear here. Nor does the fighter. True, the EK is going to excell in a few situations but I don't see powergamers overly attacrted to this class. If I were interested in powergaming I wouldn't play the EK.

Would someone neutral do a level by level comparison between the EK, fighter and wizard?

 

[drnuncheon]

Re: Re: Fighter/Wizard a good choice now! [3.5]

And why would you assume that I would make such a mistake?

Because it's very easy to do, especially if you're comparing only the EK levels to the wizard levels instead of the whole characters.

I refer merely to the fact that for the duration of the PrC, the class is getting 90% of wizard spell advancement and 100% BAB advancement.

Right...but 100% BAB advancement is a far cry from 100% advancement in a fighting class. Heck, it's not even 100% advancement in an NPC class. Despite this, people talk about the EK like it's almost 100% advancement in two classes.

I'm just trying to keep things in perspective, because too many people seem to think that EK lets you fight like a fighter, when it doesn't. EK means that instead of fighting like a wizard, you fight like a bard. 'Round these parts, 'you fight like a bard' is an insult.

J

 

[Tabarnak Smokeblower]

Bard/PALADIN/EK baby, put that CHA score to work!

You need 7 levels of Bard tho.

PS

I'd Suggest Paladin/Sorceror. But Divine Grace is Pal2 now... And you'll never have any 9th-level spells (without going Epic).

Paladin/Sorceror... hmm... Arcane Inquisitor... Me like.

TS

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Horsepucky.

Wizard spellcasting advancement is the most powerful class feature in the game. Easily. Worth way more than what the EK loses in terms of feats.

A wizard gets half BAB advancement and only get familiar advancement that EK does not. And that's supposed to be a fair exchange?

This isn't an old-style PrC, but a new-style PrC. As long as it isn't more powerful than a fighter of equivalent character level or a wizard of equivalent character level then it's balanced.

Don't forget to get a Ring of Counterspells folks

 

[Dark Magus]

You say that like it's a significant compensation for getting BOTH fighting and spellcasting at almost the full rate. It's not.

So what? He has a good BAB and can cast spells pretty well!!!

Your neglecting to notice the whoppin' d6 Hit Die, at 10th level (by some of the builds) EK's will have an avg. of 32 hp, before Constitution. I think this will balance out the whole issue.

 

[reapersaurus]

Chalk me up to believing that the Spellsword was a better compromise than the EK.
Personally, I never really thought there was anything to fix in the fighter/mage combo.

Chalk me up to agreeing with Pants.

Furthermore, chalk me up to believing that anyone who doesn't see a big problem with the EK is simply being selfish, and drooling at what cheese they can do with it. (or even worse, having a 'soft-spot' for broken old 1E rules)
Just because mage/fighter worked pre-3E DOESN'T mean it should still be around.

If someone made the EK in House Rules, I GUARANTEE you someone would have decried him or her as a Munchkin.

Why not... Paladin/Sorceror? Barbarian/Bards? Would they be cool EK's too?

Oh, sorry, that would be overpowering...
Sorry, that would be biased towards a paladin (or against the fighter)...

Wizard is the only class that should be able to multiclass quite well with rogue (AT) cleric (MT) and fighter-type (EK).
Why?
Because D&D is biased towards wizards. There, I said it.

P.S. drnuncheon and D12, you are so far away from objectiveness with this, it's not even funny. (d12, you even admitted that you like the fighter/mage concept)
You obviously have decided you like it, regardless of what anybody says.

Because the EK appeals to people like me who want to run decent fighter/mages and don't mind playing third fiddle in the party

The problem is, the EK appeals to people who want to be better than all fighter-types in their field of expertise : combat - which he quite easily would be, with Polymorph and buff spells at his disposal.

Please don't bother arguing that an EK would not be as good as a Bbn in combat, with all the spells at the EK's disposal. You'd just embarass yourself.

There are so many spells that unbalance this PrC in combat, it's not even funny.

• False Life grants 1d10+ caster level HP's, narrowing the HP gap
• GMW greatly enhances the EK's combat strikes
• Polymorph (AFAIK) gives the EK an overwhelming advantage, even allowing the EK to effectively have much more attribute points to spend on the ones that won't be 'replaced' by the cherry-picked combat-monster Polymorphed form.
• Transformation eradicates the loss of 3 BAB his 5 wizard levels cost him
• not to mention insane stuff like Forcecage, etc that stops the fights dead
• Fly completely changes combat
• Greater Invisibility alone will cause the EK to win any fight with a comparable level fighter-type (without help for the fighter)
• the fighter-types will be required to buy magic items to make up for the EK's spells (like Fly and G. Invis), leaving the EK with a money advantage (furthered, since he can Craft his own)
• Haste gives a melee boost, also
• Heroism and Greater Heroism alone help the EK to hit better than a fighter-type
• Mage's Sword is a nice companion to have to heap on damage in a combat

This is just a small sample, from briefly looking over 3.5E (I'm not schooled on it yet).

If you can't see that a EK would OWN a fighter-type in combat, than you're really not seeing it objectively.

 

[gfunk]

• False Life grants 1d10+ caster level HP's, narrowing the HP gap
• GMW greatly enhances the EK's combat strikes
• Polymorph (AFAIK) gives the EK an overwhelming advantage, even allowing the EK to effectively have much more attribute points to spend on the ones that won't be 'replaced' by the cherry-picked combat-monster Polymorphed form.
• Transformation eradicates the loss of 3 BAB his 5 wizard levels cost him
• not to mention insane stuff like Forcecage, etc that stops the fights dead
• Fly completely changes combat
• Greater Invisibility alone will cause the EK to win any fight with a comparable level fighter-type (without help for the fighter)
• the fighter-types will be required to buy magic items to make up for the EK's spells (like Fly and G. Invis), leaving the EK with a money advantage (furthered, since he can Craft his own)
• Haste gives a melee boost, also
• Heroism and Greater Heroism alone help the EK to hit better than a fighter-type
• Mage's Sword is a nice companion to have to heap on damage in a combat

• 
  
  Just keep in mind that many of these spells have been nerfed and given durations of 1 min/level. Meaning that they will last one combat in reality.
  
  Long gone are the days where a Fighter/Mage can cast all of his buff spells (esp. Polymorph) and have them all day.

 

[Pants]

If you can't see that a EK would OWN a fighter-type in combat, than you're really not seeing it objectively.

One thing to remember is that the EK isn't going to have the HP of the Fighter nor is he going to have access to G. Weapon Focus and G. Weapon Spec.

 

[Carnifex]

Horsepucky.

Wizard spellcasting advancement is the most powerful class feature in the game. Easily. Worth way more than what the EK loses in terms of feats.

A wizard gets half BAB advancement and only get familiar advancement that EK does not. And that's supposed to be a fair exchange?

A wizard also trades out bonus feats.

I'm more worried about a sorcerer with this PrC, who really does only lose familiar advancement and the 2 levels of spellcasting. Wizard/EK sounds pretty balanced to me.