Fighter/Wizard a good choice now! [3.5]

[Olive]

Chalk me up as noting that the EK is a good compromise as opposed to not ruining the game by changing the multi-class system, the XP system and the spell system all to fix fighter/wizards.

I agree with Merric in this.Now I'm not too fused about fighter/wizards in the first place, but better this PrC than a change to multiclassing to the way it was in 2e.

 

[Valiantheart]

18 levels of spellcasting; remember the pre-reqs: Ftr1/Wiz5, and you gain no spellcasting ability for the first level of the EK.

You are 2 levels behind a standard wizard, and that's an entire spell-level, something that is considered significant.

The normal mage also gives up a few bonus feats, which are significant to my mind.

Cheers!

I think that says a lot when you consider 1 spell level is apparently worth +10 BAB and 10 Hp. So much for the melee classes.

This is another PrC that makes me think, "Why wouldnt a sorcerer take this class?"

 

[ergeheilalt]

Chalk me up as a person intrigued by the assumption that some players make that any PrC in an "official" book is somehow a core class, and that it's OK to take multiple PrCs. "Why yes, I do think that a Fighter/Wizard/Eldritch Knight/Mystic Theurge/Red Wizard/Achmage/Dragon Disciple is a cool combo. Just look at how big my p***s is now!"

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

Sorry to bust your example there, but a Dragon Disciple has to be able to cast spells without preparing them...

As for the idea of the Eldritch Knight, I really enjoy it. Flavor is all well and good - and perfectly acceptable to add - but when it come to sword swingin', ranged touch attacks ... the EK will rock .

If you need flavor, make the Eldritch Knights an order of actual Knights and tack on an Alignment requirement. Give it a back story, a history, a council, a dogma. The comparison between the Eldritch Knight and the Assassin was ludicrous. Okay, the Assassin gains Death attack. Woopdee do, not flavorful IMO. Flavor gives a prestige class character. Would you rather read a book about how an Assassin kills people to gain Death Attack, or how a fighter/mage seeks to find the Order of the Knights Arcane and qualify for training. To assume that flavor and mechanics must sync up with special names is silly. You could take every slot where it says "+1 spell casting level" and stick in something cleverly named that does the same thing. At least they didn't make the vain attempt at disguising the EK's spell casting for something else - think that you, the reader, would be stupid enough to believe it.

Even if they did give the EK some fluffy backstory, half the DMs out there would change it to something entirely different so it would fit in their game. Flavor goes beyond abilities, and reflects character and aspirations.

Erge

 

[MerricB]

Comparing a Ftr20 vs. a Ftr1/Wiz9/EK10, one notices:

BAB: +20 vs. +15
Bonus Feats: 11 vs. 4.

I don't think the fighter is getting obsolete anytime soon.

Comparing a Wiz20 vs. a Ftr1/Wiz9/EK10
BAB: +10 vs. +15
Bonus Feats: 5 vs. 4. (albeit some must be fighter instead of wizard - that does hurt the wizard build).
Spell-casting: 20th vs. 18th.

Cheers!

 

[Mercule]

I agree with Merric in this.Now I'm not too fused about fighter/wizards in the first place, but better this PrC than a change to multiclassing to the way it was in 2e.

Oh, heavens no. I don't want to return to 2E multiclassing. By and large, I love the multiclassing rules for 3E.

I just think the EK is a kluge for a flaw in the multiclass system (although I'm not convinced that Fig/Wiz are underpowered).

PrCs shoud always be viewed as an option. Most concepts can be built with the core classes alone. PrCs are there to add flavor, specialization, or advanced abilities to flesh out the core classes and combinations thereof. Gluing two core classes together really shouldn't be considered a valid use of a PrC and attempting to do so just shows an "oops" in the system.

In all honesty, I'll probably be allowing EK, MT, and the like in my game. This is because it is the _easiest_ fix for the situation. I really don't think it is the "right" way to do it nor is it a reasonable long-term solution. I consider it an open issue for whenever 4E rolls around. It would have been completely out of scope to do it in 3.5, so I don't begrudge the inclusion of the EK. I'm just not giddy about it.

If the correct fix entails overhauling the magic system, I won't exactly shed a tear. Vancian/fire-and-forget magic is silly and strongly taxes suspension of disbelief. IMHO, it's the last sacred cow that should be barbequed.

 

[The Little Raven]

All those PrCs are core.

From the DMG 3.5, page 176, 1st column, 5th paragraph:

"Prestige classes are purely optional and always under the purview of the DM."

They are an optional rule that has become the favored child of 3rd Edition.

 

[d12]

Well, I go away and look what happens to my nice thread.

Okay, point #1 - the Spellsword. I like the "flavor" of the spellsword but in my game a player played one and just wasn't effective. His BAB was waaaay too low and he couldn't hit anything without True Strike. And b/c he got 1 caster level every other level he couldn't penetrate SR with any consistency. I mean its cool that he could wear some armor but it didn't make up for everything he didn't have when it came to the big battles. In short - spellsword - nice flavor but not fun because you often aren't effective.

Point #2 - "The EK is too powerful." No it isn't. Its just powerful enough to keep up with the fighter and the wizard and make sure the player of the character has fun, can penetrate DR and still effectivly swing a sword. You can't use armor and your HP are pretty low. The EK isn't going to be as good of a mage as the party wizard and he isn't going to be as good of a fighter as the party fighter but he can actually do both well enough to be the 2nd best of both. And remember he only gets 10 levels of this. Eventually he's going to have to give up +1 BAB/level along with +1 spellcasting/level.

Point #3 - "Prestige classes shouldn't be used to fix problems with game mechanics." Um, yes they should! So there!

 

[Psion]

I think the EK is more than a little bit generous. I think ftr/wiz may be a little weak, but 1/1 BAB and 9/10 spell advancement strikes me as a bit much.

Unfortunately, I predict this will be a standard setter, and will start a new generation of munchkin PRCs.

 

[d12]

An optimal EK is a whole level of spells behind his wizard buddy at all times. The strait wizard gets limited wish two levels before the EK does. He gets wish two levels before the EK does. The true fighter is a much better combatant. If I want to play a EK - how does that make me a munchkin?

 

[Psion]

An optimal EK is a whole level of spells behind his wizard buddy at all times.

You say that like it's a significant compensation for getting BOTH fighting and spellcasting at almost the full rate. It's not.

See the old mystic theurge threads. Lather, rinse, repeat.