Fighting Styles vs Feats, which is better?

[DEFCON 1]

That also isn't a bad idea, tying them into the tiers for the class you gained the style in.



The only suggestion I have would be to remove the stealth thing (since most warrior-types with armor won't be trying stealth moves, at least IMO) and maybe if you house-rule the disadvantage for wearing armor applies to Athletics and such, the better Defense style could remove that? Just a thought.

Parties do group Stealth checks enough in my games that even though armor-wearers aren't supposed to be "good" at sneaking, making Stealth checks is something they still have to do. And since the disad on Stealth is already tied into the armor chart, it's an easier award to give than having to create a penalty of disad for Athletics checks first for the entire game, only to then remove it for the second tier of Defense style.

Like using part of the Dual-Wielder feat as a second tier award for the fighting style... the removal of disad for stealth is using part of the Medium Armor Master feat as a second tier award too. You were questioning what was more important-- fighting styles or feats-- and for my money they both have aspects that are very important for certain playstyles. And I'd rather encourage those playstyles by giving the reward away for "free" (if you have the fighting style), rather than force someone to take a feat that includes it (but which might not be worthwhile overall.) No one in any of my games ever has or will take Medium Armor Master (because there are usually much better options for people), so I just take out one of the bonuses from it and use it elsewhere. But to each their own.

 

[WhosDaDungeonMaster]

Parties do group Stealth checks enough in my games that even though armor-wearers aren't supposed to be "good" at sneaking, making Stealth checks is something they still have to do.

True.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

For me, those are too strong. For example, my players got the gift of Protection (found in Blingdenstone, in OOTA) which is like a Ring of Protection. One of them later found a Luck Stone, and another got their hands on an actual Ring of Protection. What I then found when estimating encounters for them is that I had to count them one or two levels higher for the DMG guidelines. Your Duelist is crazy-strong. I mean, look what Archery does with Sharpshooter. Your Duelist can stack onto GWM...

GWF is perhaps the poorest fighting style, so of what you have I feel l like Striker is most justified. It is intentional that it will apply to both melee and ranged weapons, right?

These fighting styles don't exist in a game that uses feats as written, so they're intended to also cover some of the ground that their iconic feats provide. I mean, feats are an optional rule anyway, so I'd rather that fighting styles be balanced on their own instead of relying on feats to keep them balanced.

I took the core archery style as the baseline, since +2 to hit with almost every attack is very easy to parse, and then simplified and diversified. The core archery style is strong, and I want fighting styles to be a big deal, so I raised everything else to its level. A +2 bonus to hit is very similar to +2 with ranged attacks, except it's easier to implement, and it also covers the 1% of situations where an archer is forced into melee. A +2 bonus to AC would be too strong, even though it's an obvious counter to +2 on attacks, but splitting it to cover both AC and saving throws means that enemies don't get to trivially bypass your defense by just casting a spell. Splitting a bonus between attack and AC is an obvious way to represent the historical benefits of off-hand parrying with the traditional game benefits of increased accuracy, while adding the two weapon damage dice together allows it to scale appropriately with extra attacks.

Adding proficiency to damage rolls is an outlier, but it feels about right for someone who cares about damage, so I didn't examine that one too closely. It's less spiky than Power Attack, and easier to implement, so that's good enough for me.

 

[WhosDaDungeonMaster]

These are the different options I've been rolling around in my mind. I am not saying you get all the benefits, but these are options. I might only pick a couple or use all for each Fighting Style:

Archery:

• You gain a +1 to attack rolls with ranged weapons.
• Your normal range is doubled when attacking with a ranged weapon.
• If you are surprised but have your weapon loaded, you may make one attack as a reaction during the surprise round, but this attack is at disadvantage.

Defense:

• While wearing armor, you gain a +1 to AC and a +1 to Con saves.
• If you choose to move at one-half speed or slower, you are no longer at disadvantage on Stealth rolls.
• You can don and doff armor in one-half the normal time. Shields can be donned and doffed as a bonus action.

Dueling:

• When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no weapon in your off-hand, you gain a +1 to damage with that weapon.
• As a reaction, you gain a +2 bonus to AC against one melee attack. You may use this ability after the attack roll is made, but before the result of that roll is determined.

Great Weapon Fighting:

• When wielding a weapon with two hands that has either the two-handed or versatile property, you can re-roll damage if the weapon damage is 4 or less. If the re-roll is less than 4, it is automatically 4.

Protection:

• You gain a +1 bonus to AC when using a shield.
• You gain a +1 bonus to Dex saves when using a shield.
• As a reaction, you can impose disadvantage on any one attack made by an opponent within 5 feet of you.

Two Weapon Fighting:

• You add your ability modifier to damage done on the second attack.
• You can draw or stow a one-handed weapons with each hand, instead of the only one normally allowed.

Comments are welcome.

 

[Slit518]

Let us look at it this way -

1) Fighting Style may do one of a few things, the top ones being +2 to accuracy, +2 to damage, or +1 Armor Class.
2) ASI of raising a combat stat by 2 would give you +1 accuracy & +1 damage, and in the case of Dexterity +1 Armor Class as well.
3) A feat allows certain characteristics, ignoring cover, subtracting 5 to accuracy for 10 extra damage, re-rolling certain rolls, etc.

So a feat has the potential to be really good in certain circumstances, while an ASI or a Fighting Style is good in all circumstances that involve them.

 

[TwoSix]

My own houserule is that you gain all the fighting styles for your class when you gain the ability, instead of picking one. If you actually want to specialize in a weapon style, you have to take a feat. I don't like locking characters into certain weapon choices in a game predicated on finding magical weapons as a form of reward.

It's a buff to martial characters, but not a major one.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Fighting styles are definitely not as strong as feats, and I think that's a good thing. The two weapon fighting style felt like a nice boost to my dual-wielding battlemaster but it wasn't so overwhelmingly good that I felt like I was losing out when I picked up a bow, or grabbed a shield.

There's only two ways to get more than 1 fighting style: be a champion or multiclass. If the fighting styles were as strong as feats, They'd wind up pigeon holing the character into only fighting with their style, and I think that'd be a shame.

I do wish that there was a feat that granted a fighting style, honestly. IMO the feats that grant proficiency are practically worthless, so I'm considering adding a fighting style to them.

That was my thinking at first. I thought the Fighting Styles, being a core feature of the Fighter, should be quite powerful but really aren't after further thought.



Actually, Dual Wielder grants a +1 AC bonus. And Sharp Shooter negating the disadvantage for long-range shots equates to about a +3 attack bonus, not to mention removing penalties for cover (which equal out to a +2 attack versus half-cover and +5 attack versus 3/4-cover).

Crossbow Expert also grants an extra bonus action attack with hand crossbows, which can be big.