File type discrimination

[BardMorgan]

You are correct, and what they are choosing to do with it right now is allowing it to be freely distributed on the Internet. And once the cat is out of the bag...

PCGen for at least a very long time has made sure that they have permission for all thier material. With respect to the non-SRD WotC material they had unofficial permission from Ryan Dancey and continued after that to try to get official permission. It was only at GenCon that they finally had official talks and are now working to meet all the requirements that were laid out.

Actually, they never had explicit permission from WotC... WotC simply let it stand without challenge. WotC simply decided to make a stand...

I'm not sure what the law is on IP that's being encouraged in a particular format, but since there's no legal requirement to defend copyright, that may be moot. As far as I know, a copyright holder can control exactly who and how has permission to use the materials...

Bard Morgan

 

[Brent]

For all who have been complaining about PCGen and its use of copyrighted material I hope to see the same indignation and outrage over all of the e-tools file shareing sites that are poping up. On some of these sites I have seen non-WotC material begining to show up...

One difference is, the PCGen people were coding and distributing WotC material without their permission. In your case above, it is fan created material. You would have an argument if:

1. WotC distributes non WotC material themselves (I doubt it)

or

2. PCGen does not distribute WotC material, but fans do distribute WotC material in PCGen format. I think PCGen is heading for the first part, but the fans will continue to do the second part.

When #2 happens, then you can judge WotC. I don't think WotC will jump on individual fans for distributing stuff in eTools, PCGen (or even NWN) format. They will work to resolve issues with groups the size of PCGen (or even Morus for that matter).

 

[smetzger]

For all who have been complaining about PCGen and its use of copyrighted material I hope to see the same indignation and outrage over all of the e-tools file shareing sites that are poping up. On some of these sites I have seen non-WotC material begining to show up. I don't know for certain whether any of these publishers have yet given permission, but I myself have seen no such permissions yet.

True anyone that posts copyrighted material without the copyright holders explicit permission is in violation of copyright law. As far as I know WOTC has not given permission for non-OGC WOTC material to be distributed in e-tools compatable format. I also have not heard of any other copyright holders giving permission to have their material distributed in e-tools format.

Also, if you distribute OGC material in e-tools format you need to include a copy of the OGL with the correct info filled in for section 15 with that material; otherwise you are in violation of the OGL.

Another thing to consider is that the e-tools helper is not a WOTC product. The files it produces are not e-tools format files. The e-tools helper creator could have used the PCGen .lst file format instead of XML. Would have been much more difficult and the .lst file might not be 100% compatable with PCGen, but it is a possibility.

However, I don't believe anyone who is distributing these files have explicitly said they are doing so legally.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

My original question was not directed at PCGen, but in general whether a company (in this case) WotC was allowed to prevent its copyrighted material from being freely distributed in only one file format. The answer apparently is yes. My question was related to whether I or other fans not related to PCGen were now allowed to distribute this material in PCGen format. The answer was no, since WotC was not allowing the distribution in PCGen format.

My more recent point is I am now seeing non-WotC material showing up on these sites (and I mean material that was published by others and not individual fan creations). I would like for whoever complains about PCGen distributing material without permission to look at these other sites as well and hold them to the same standards for aquiring permission. I am not complaining about WotC material being distributed, since they seem to be allowing it. But I have seen nothing that implies that Bastion Press, Sword & Scorcery, Necromancer games, Malhavoc Press or anyone else has given permission for thier files to be distributed in e-tools format. If by being OGC no permission is needed then remember that PCGen could use this standard as well but actualy has higher standards.

I will put in a good word for WotC since I have not yet noticed any non-WotC material being distributed on thier boards.

 

[smetzger]

If by being OGC no permission is needed then remember that PCGen could use this standard as well but actualy has higher standards.

To be OGC compliant you basically need to clearly identify open content, include a copy of the OGL, and update section 15 of the OGL to credit the proper copyright holders. Just because its OGC doesn't mean you are allowed to skip this things.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

To be OGC compliant you basically need to clearly identify open content, include a copy of the OGL, and update section 15 of the OGL to credit the proper copyright holders. Just because its OGC doesn't mean you are allowed to skip this things.

Since e-tools is not OGC compliant (and need not be) if it includes other OGC material is it breaking the rules? If it doesn't have to because the OGC data files are not released by WotC, do the fans need to follow OGC rules?

 

[Arnix]

This thread has turned into a flame war, and as such I usually avoid posting so deep.

However (love these don't ya),

The data that was provided with PCGen that was WoTC copyrighted material, was less information than you would find in a college thesis paper. Frequently, the data amounted to as much as you might find in that thesis' bibliography; Name, Page Number, Book Name, Publisher. The listing of Prereqs are the only things that seemed out of line, but those were game mechanic related, and assumed uncopyrightable (see one fo the above posts for more on this part).

People seem to assume that PCGen practically scanned in the entire WoTC catalog and put it out for public distribution. This is NOT the case.

I encourage anyone who has questiosn on this to read PCGen's listserve hsitory. This has been covered in GREAT detail, and at great length.

Arnix (tm)

 

[smetzger]

Since e-tools is not OGC compliant (and need not be) if it includes other OGC material is it breaking the rules?

If other OGC material is included with a distributed copy of e-tools than in general yes the law has been broken. Since e-tools is a WOTC product they would have to do one of the following in order to legally distribute e-tools with 3rd party OGC material:
1) Get explicite permission from the 3rd party to distribute the OGC material in a non OGL product.
2) Follow the OGL for this OGC material.

If it doesn't have to because the OGC data files are not released by WotC, do the fans need to follow OGC rules?

Anyone distributing OGC material is supposed to follow the same rules.