D&D 5E Finding 5th edition too "safe".

[pemerton]

I also used weapon v armor type.

Likewise.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Yes, demi-humans got bonuses. But remember, unless you were a thief, you were also level capped anywhere between level 6-9ish.

 

[pemerton]

Yes, demi-humans got bonuses. But remember, unless you were a thief, you were also level capped anywhere between level 6-9ish.

I was specifically referencing thief saving throws for dwarves and halflings.

As far as level limits more generally, elves could get to level 11 MUs. Some demihumans could also make it to double digits as assassins (or druids, in the case of half-elves). And that's before UA's rule changes in this respect.

I realise that you have played a lot of AD&D, but so have many other posters on these boards and in this thread (including me). We all have our own experiences of that system (or, really, collection of systems, running from OD&D with supplements through permutations of 1st ed AD&D both before and after UA, through permutations of 2nd ed AD&D).

 

[Tony Vargas]

Y'all are ing nuts.

We do all play D&D, afterall.

 

[Sacrosanct]

As far as level limits more generally, elves could get to level 11 MUs. .

Only if you were lucky enough to have an 18 INT. An elven MU with a 16 INT could only go to level 9. But more to the point, it you look at that table, the overwhelming number of demi-human classes capped out between level 6-9ish (I used "ish" for a reason, because there are a couple outliers).

 

[RotGrub]

Or to take half damage from a fireball. Or to take partial damage from any number of other effects. Or to avoid effects that absolutely weren't instant death, like charm person. You're badly mischaracterizing saving throws here.

No I'm not, I was simply telling you how the 2e PHB defined them. Now I could have been more clear by saying "certain destruction" and not "certain death".

The saving throw is a die roll that gives a chance, however slim, that the character or creature finds some way to save himself from certain destruction (or at least lessen the damage of a successful attack).
More often than not, the saving throw represents an instinctive act on the part of the character--diving to the ground just as a fireball scorches the group, blanking the mind just as a mental battle begins, blocking the worst of an acid spray with a shield. The exact action is not important--DMs and players can think of lively and colorful explanations of why a saving throw succeeded or failed. Explanations tailored to the events of the moment enhance the excitement of the game.

I find that many new players today don't view saving throws to mean the same thing they once did. Players are no longer thankful they even get to roll. Of course, save or die isn't a thing anymore. It probably all started with 3e and its resistance mechanics.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I also did something like the half-exp for just bypassing or temporarily defeating a monster, but I kept track and kept halving it. So if you evaded the same monster 3 times you'd get just 1/16th exp for doing it again (or a whole 1/8th for finally putting it out of it's misery). I guess that encourages 'murder hoboism.'

Yes, and in my case that encouragement is deliberate. I told my players I want it to be like how the Dark Side of the Force is a quicker and easier path than the Light Side. Causes problems in the long run, but if all you care about is XP you can certainly go around murderhoboing.

 

[jgsugden]

Item saves were not uncommon. I remember some very sad failed item saves...

 

[RotGrub]

Yes, and in my case that encouragement is deliberate. I told my players I want it to be like how the Dark Side of the Force is a quicker and easier path than the Light Side. Causes problems in the long run, but if all you care about is XP you can certainly go around murderhoboing.

Not really, in 2e the DMG makes it clear that you don't get XP for just killing things. There needs to be a purpose behind it all and there has to be some danger as well.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Yup, I infondly remember item saving throws. Especially the one where the Mirror of Life Trapping failed it's save vs bludgeoning and broke. We'd spent most of the campaign filling that with various nasty things. That encounter went from dealing with some fire giants causing issues with a nearby town to a major planar incursion. The party shifted immediately from fighting to fleeing by the most rapid means possible. The losers were the ones at the tail end of initiative, including the fire giants. Our party face (who survived by fleeing first) had the gumption to try to collect from the town for solving the fire giant problem and to secure a contract to deal with the new nastiness that had decided to settle rather than move on.