D&D 5E Finding 5th edition too "safe".

[thecasualoblivion]

This sentiment may be related to your opinions in the other thread, where you've expressed a need to have kickass characters with which you can pwn encounters with masterful ease...

Why shouldn't I have kickass characters that are mechanically effective at the table?

 

[ChrisCarlson]

Why shouldn't I have kickass characters that are mechanically effective at the table?

I'm confused. I don't believe I said anything in my post that would lead you to ask that question. Were you, perhaps, being rhetorical? Or maybe you meant to direct that at someone else?

 

[thecasualoblivion]

I'm confused. I don't believe I said anything in my post that would lead you to ask that question. Were you, perhaps, being rhetorical? Or maybe you meant to direct that at someone else?

...

This sentiment may be related to your opinions in the other thread, where you've expressed a need to have kickass characters with which you can pwn encounters with masterful ease...

 

[discosoc]

Eh. Eliminate long rest HP restore and change HD recovered to 1/day of rest. If you want, you can set the maximum HD pool to 1, change Fighter's Second Wind to temp HP or to a long rest ability, set the Paladin's healing pool to 2/level, eliminate potions of healing, and remove Holy Word and Revivify.

I consider all of these vastly preferable to THAC0 and 1e/2e multiclassing.

What's wrong with THAC0? It requires a very small amount of basic subtraction to figure out, and generally doesn't change too much from turn to turn for each player.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

...

Is there a question there? I made a statement of fact. I made no comment on said fact.

I connected your need to have such a character with your desire not to have said character die. Those seem closely related to me. Is that insight somehow controversial? <shrug>

 

[Tony Vargas]

I think the lethality between the two editions is a bit orthagonal to each other. 5e damage is the biggest single facet of dying, even if it isn't even half the equation. 4e had a lot of HPs for both PCs and monsters, the key to killing things quickly was stacking up conditions on them. These could both defang the foes and make them easier for you to kill - potent debuffs.

One of the things about having a little tactical depth is that there's more than one potential winning strategy. I've seen parties with an optimized controller (or 2 or more controllers, or several non-controllers carefully cooperating to manage inflicting what conditions they could optimally) do well by locking down enemies, just as you suggest. I've seen them do well by laying on the DPR with a vengeance, too. I've seen parties with 2 leaders (2 1/2 in one case, there was also a paladin), crawl away from brutally long encounters and brutally long days, victorious. I have one set of players who will talk their way out of the most unavoidable-seeming fights.

But, I wasn't thinking of deadly, to the monsters, but of deadly to PC parties. 5e, like the classic game, can be pretty randomly deadly out the gate, but it quickly gets much more survivable. IMHO, that's intentional, part of the 'evoke the feel of the classic game' goal they were always asking about in the Next questionaires.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

One of the things about having a little tactical depth is that there's more than one potential winning strategy.

One of the things about having a less mechanically deep system is that there's more than one potential winning strategy.

 

[Bacon Bits]

What's wrong with THAC0? It requires a very small amount of basic subtraction to figure out, and generally doesn't change too much from turn to turn for each player.

It's needlessly complex, meaning it takes longer. It's not difficult. It's needlessly difficult. Bonuses subtract, while penalties add. Yet we write "+1 longsword" because it's a bonus, even though what we do is subtract 1. Yet on the d20, we want to always roll higher. Everyone intuits that more is better, but THAC0 says the opposite. So THAC0 isn't intuitive. It feels backwards to everyone. Worst of all, the complexity doesn't enhance game play.

THAC0 is a microtyranny. THAC0 is the height of thoughtless game design. THAC0 is the Norman Door of the RPG world.

 

[Eubani]

Is there a question there? I made a statement of fact. I made no comment on said fact.

I connected your need to have such a character with your desire not to have said character die. Those seem closely related to me. Is that insight somehow controversial? <shrug>

From an outside and neutral view there did seem to be a subtle negative implication. That may not be what was meant but still what came across.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

From an outside and neutral view there did seem to be a subtle negative implication. That may not be what was meant but still what came across.

Is that same "outside and neutral view" seeing the same negative implications from his own posts in the other thread(s) to which I was referring? You know, the ones which lead me to connect those two dots? The ones where he goes into great detail on how imperative it is he be able to play an optimally twinked combat-mastered buttkicker? Because otherwise, I might have to wonder if said "outside and neutral view" is fully informed or is in fact basing their opinion on only partial information.