D&D 5E Finding 5th edition too "safe".

[thecasualoblivion]

Yes, demi-humans got bonuses. But remember, unless you were a thief, you were also level capped anywhere between level 6-9ish.

Level limits in 2E were in the 10-16 range, and hidden in the DMG as a quasi-optional rule.

 

[RotGrub]

Yup, I infondly remember item saving throws. Especially the one where the Mirror of Life Trapping failed it's save vs bludgeoning and broke. We'd spent most of the campaign filling that with various nasty things. That encounter went from dealing with some fire giants causing issues with a nearby town to a major planar incursion. The party shifted immediately from fighting to fleeing by the most rapid means possible. The losers were the ones at the tail end of initiative, including the fire giants. Our party face (who survived by fleeing first) had the gumption to try to collect from the town for solving the fire giant problem and to secure a contract to deal with the new nastiness that had decided to settle rather than move on.

very cool, that stuff just doesn't happen anymore

 

[Azzy]

AD&D did have bleeding out rules in 1e. Once you went unconscious, you lost 1 hp per round. And even if you got aid, you were still in a coma afterward and had to rest a long time. If you hit -6 hp before being aided, you could have lost a limb.

It's been a while since I've looked up those rules.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Level limits in 2E were in the 10-16 range, and hidden in the DMG as a quasi-optional rule.

we were talking about 1e

 

[Blue]

At 1st level, definitely, though 4e never felt as 'easy mode' as 5e quickly gets. 4e tried to expand the 'sweet spot' and it did; 5e tried to re-capture classic feel, and, IMHO, it certainly did. You clearly disagree, and think the classic game was deadlier, longer.

I think the lethality between the two editions is a bit orthagonal to each other. 5e damage is the biggest single facet of dying, even if it isn't even half the equation. 4e had a lot of HPs for both PCs and monsters, the key to killing things quickly was stacking up conditions on them. These could both defang the foes and make them easier for you to kill - potent debuffs.

Several 4e campaigns I was in used Alea Tools - colored magnets sized to be attached to mini bases - to track conditions. By the time we'd get to late heroic tier we'd often be able to stack enough conditions under a foe that the magnets were taller than it was. We ended up making a lot of custom labels the the Alea with things our PCs did, and then general colors to remind of other thigns (green = ongoing damage, orange = grants combat advantage, brown = slowed/immobilized/etc, purple = royally scr...messed up).

 

[Azzy]

After a tough fight with a black dragon, I remember our cleric standing nude in the chamber holding a crowbar and a quill writing pen, the only items he owned after a very bad run of item saving throws (aside from a nat 20 on his writing feather, of course.)

I half-remember something similar happening in one of the games I was in.

 

[backwoodsmutant]

Personally, the old school "everyone make three generic disposable characters for Tomb of Horrors" style of play seems really empty to me. Sure, there should be risk to create drama, but if I don't have any emotional attachment to the character then I don't really care whether they live or die. After all, I can just create another generic character in 5 minutes so what's there to be afraid of?

 

[thecasualoblivion]

Personally, the old school "everyone make three generic disposable characters for Tomb of Horrors" style of play seems really empty to me. Sure, there should be risk to create drama, but if I don't have any emotional attachment to the character then I don't really care whether they live or die. After all, I can just create another generic character in 5 minutes so what's there to be afraid of?

I was always fond of the concept of taking your dead level 1 character and crossing out the name on your character sheet and replacing it with Bob II.

But yeah, I second this. I can't be bothered to invest in something disposable.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

Level limits in 2E were in the 10-16 range, and hidden in the DMG as a quasi-optional rule.

They were actually mentioned right near the beginning of the Player Character Races chapter (specifically 2 sub-headings before the Dwarf heading that begins that race entry).

That the DMG was required to complete the rule doesn't make it "quasi-optional" or even "hidden" since 2nd edition outright states you need both books (PHB and DMG) to play the game.

Also, there were a few classes limited to level 8-9 for some races.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

But yeah, I second this. I can't be bothered to invest in something disposable.

This sentiment may be related to your opinions in the other thread, where you've expressed a need to have kickass characters with which you can pwn encounters with masterful ease...