D&D (2024) Firearms to be made a fixed part of the game, new Weapons Rules

[JohnSnow]

Tim Powers On Stranger Tides utilises the concept of cold iron dampening magic, so itvwas the widespread adoption of Steel that lead to loss of magic in the old world (Europe). Magic users in that setting mush be careful to avoid iron - including iron pots and pans

Guns are interesting in as much as when fired they become hot iron then deliver cold shot to the target

Butcher's Dresden notes that "Cold Iron" is like someone saying you filled someone full of "hot lead." It's not some weird kind of material, the phrase itself is just poetic license. Fey Courts in that world don't deal well with anything that has iron in it of any kind, so no steel for the fey, although it doesn't bother Wizards much. Wizards, on the other hand, don't play well with technology (electronics and the like), something that bothers the Fey not in the least.

On the other hand, I learned something interesting while digging into it. Historically, "cold iron" was iron you dug out of the ground, and things that were made from it, like steel. By contrast, there was also "hot iron," which was something you might not expect: star-metal, or "meteoric iron." I guess the assumption was that the otherworldly metal just wasn't as good against faeries, but I found the distinction fascinating.

I also had a fascinating conversation with a swordsmith friend of mine about "bog iron," which is naturally occurring as a deposit in peat bogs, can be mined from them, and grows back. It deposits slowly in the bogs as water runs through subterranean iron deposits. This got me to thinking of all kinds of cool world-building where elves don't cut holes in the ground, but rather simply harvest all their iron from bogs, because they're totally okay with the wait for the deposits to grow back. Similarly, elves don't mine for gold, they just pan for it like during the California gold rush. And so on.

 

[Staffan]

Just to toss something into this, magic in the Dresden Files series is not totally dissimilar to 5e (his spells are a little less D&D-ish, but Harry is basically a bog-standard D&D Wizard living in 21st-century Chicago), and Harry pretty much admits that in many ways, technology beats magic. Which is why he carries a revolver as one of his sidearms.

Sure, there are things magic can do that technology can't, but firearms are devastatingly good at what they do, and basically the entire magical community acknowledges that mortals could overwhelm them with a combination of superior technology and numbers.

Jim Butcher has actually thought some of these things though to a degree that Rowling simply never did.

To expand a little more on that: for a wizard of Dresden's caliber (heh), his magic is definitely stronger than a handgun, and the same goes for any combat-focused wizard with a few decades under their belt. However, Dresden is a pretty powerful wizard even at the start of the books, and the laws for magic users do not allow them to kill humans with magic. Doing so will get you branded a warlock meaning the wizard society wants you dead, and the books strongly suggest that the Laws aren't just something a bunch of old fogies thought up. Using magic requires will, and you can't really use magic in order to kill someone without the belief that yes, it is right and proper for me to kill this person, and that sort of thing leaves a stain on your soul. That's why Dresden carries a gun, because sometimes even mortals need to have violence done to them, and then magic's not the right tool for the job.

But yes, the mass of humanity with modern tech could probably take out most supernatural factions, or at least force them to retreat to the Nevernever (where they'd likely wither away eventually given that they all need some form of relation to humans, either short or long term).

 

[tetrasodium]

To expand a little more on that: for a wizard of Dresden's caliber (heh), his magic is definitely stronger than a handgun, and the same goes for any combat-focused wizard with a few decades under their belt. However, Dresden is a pretty powerful wizard even at the start of the books, and the laws for magic users do not allow them to kill humans with magic. Doing so will get you branded a warlock meaning the wizard society wants you dead, and the books strongly suggest that the Laws aren't just something a bunch of old fogies thought up. Using magic requires will, and you can't really use magic in order to kill someone without the belief that yes, it is right and proper for me to kill this person, and that sort of thing leaves a stain on your soul. That's why Dresden carries a gun, because sometimes even mortals need to have violence done to them, and then magic's not the right tool for the job.

But yes, the mass of humanity with modern tech could probably take out most supernatural factions, or at least force them to retreat to the Nevernever (where they'd likely wither away eventually given that they all need some form of relation to humans, either short or long term).

Depends on who has that handgun. Dresden with Karrin Murphy's handgun maybe not so hot, but Karrin with it will be pretty scary. One of the running themes that comes up over & over again in the books is that mundane types are great at what they do & are capable of easily doingthings a generalist wizard can't without a lot of work & vice versa. The DFRPG ttrpg does a great job of modeling that too.

 

[JohnSnow]

To expand a little more on that: for a wizard of Dresden's caliber (heh), his magic is definitely stronger than a handgun, and the same goes for any combat-focused wizard with a few decades under their belt. However, Dresden is a pretty powerful wizard even at the start of the books, and the laws for magic users do not allow them to kill humans with magic.

I would strongly suggest glancing through Harry's magical feats in Storm Front with an eye to trying to pinpoint what level of D&D Wizard he is. I think you might be surprised.

I'm not saying he's a novice, but I'd only pinpoint Harry in the first book at around 6th or 7th-level in D&D terms, if that. He's also got a a few things he can use as an arcane focus (Staff, pendant), and a couple minor enchanted items (his shield bracelet, blasting rod, and a few other things, and he's got a Arcane artifact (Bob) that either gives a major bonus, or lets him Take 10 (20?) on any Arcana check.

 

[Charlaquin]

I also had a fascinating conversation with a swordsmith friend of mine about "bog iron," which is naturally occurring as a deposit in peat bogs, can be mined from them, and grows back. It deposits slowly in the bogs as water runs through subterranean iron deposits. This got me to thinking of all kinds of cool world-building where elves don't cut holes in the ground, but rather simply harvest all their iron from bogs, because they're totally okay with the wait for the deposits to grow back. Similarly, elves don't mine for gold, they just pan for it like during the California gold rush. And so on.

I love the idea of elves using bog iron exclusively! Ever since recently having the rather sobering epiphany that everything not made of animals or plants is made of something that was mined, I’ve been considering the idea of an elf society that completely eschews mining, and this is a great solution for how they might still have access to iron.

 

[Staffan]

I would strongly suggest glancing through Harry's magical feats in Storm Front with an eye to trying to pinpoint what level of D&D Wizard he is. I think you might be surprised.

I'm not saying he's a novice, but I'd only pinpoint Harry in the first book at around 6th or 7th-level in D&D terms, if that.

That seems eminently reasonable. But in my mind, 6th level is pretty strong.

 

[JohnSnow]

That seems eminently reasonable. But in my mind, 6th level is pretty strong.

Oh, no doubt, but it might not be that high. Looking through Storm Front, the highest level spell I can pinpoint is Magic Circle, so that pegs Harry’s level as at least 5th (which is when Wizards get 3rd-level spells). It doesn’t seem like a new thing for him though, which is why I pegged his level a bit higher than 5th. The highest level thing I can think he does in the first few books is the demon he summons in Fool Moon to gather info - but that’s rather hard to pinpoint to a particular spell.

And of course, Jim also allows things like ritual casting and tapping into natural energy to let people over-channel, something that is cool, but not readily supported by D&D.