D&D (2024) Fireball is a C Tier Spell

[GrimCo]

Control vs blow stuff up as optimal build for caster is highly campaign dependent. FE in our current campaign, control build would be pretty much useless most of the time. PCs are part of one side in 3 side civil war, campaign is based around warfare (with PCs being something like commando unit) on mostly flat open ground, light forests and rolling hills, with occasional siege and mass combat. While wizard gets into range of most control spells, enemies have at least 2-3 turns shooting from longbow (and it's at least 2:1, usually 3:1 ratios). Long range blasters are better choice. My Warlock with eldricht spear and spell sniper feat is among most useful combat characters in party and deals most damage in aggregate. In official wotc adventures, control/utility is better option cause of encounter design.

 

[ECMO3]

you do not get dex to that damage.
that is why you need fighter 1

edit: @mellored beat me to it.

Unlike other classes, a Monk can add their dexterity bonus to the extra light weapon attacks without the Two Weapon Fighting feat. The reason why is the specific rule for Dexterous Attacks overides the general rule for the light weapon property:

"Dexterous Attacks. You can use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier for the attack and damage rolls of your Unarmed Strikes and Monk weapons."

Even if you don't allow this, it is still an extra attack that starts at 1d6 and scales to 1d12 while also being able to use stunning strike and getting any other bonuses afforded by magic or orther buffs.

 

[mellored]

"Dexterous Attacks. You can use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier for the attack and damage rolls of your Unarmed Strikes and Monk weapons."

Emphasize on the instead.

You don't add Str
And instead can don't add Dex


And It's not a bad feat for them. But I wouldn't call it a top one. Just a good one.

 

[Horwath]

Unlike other classes, a Monk can add their dexterity bonus to light weapon attacks without the Two Weapon Fighting feat. The reason why is the specific rule for Dexterous Attacks overides the general rule for light weapons:

"Dexterous Attacks. You can use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier for the attack and damage rolls of your Unarmed Strikes and Monk weapons."

This just more or less turns every monk weapon into finesse weapon, and with TWF you are NOT adding your ability mod to damage with off hand attack.

Even if you don't allow this, it is still an extra attack that starts at 1d6 and scales to 1d12 while also being able to use stunning strike and getting any other bonuses afforded by magic or orther buffs.

you have 5 attacks by then, stun is ONCE per turn, how many attacks do you need to land a single blow?

now if the feat gave a fighting style and one mastery that would be a very good feat.

 

[Zardnaar]

But there should be a way to build a mage... maybe sorcerer, that is all about blowing things up with massive damage. Fireball and other AoE spells have been nerfed every single version since 2e, and it shows. People were multi-classing fighter+sorcerer I hear to double cast fireball (nerfed in 5.5e I hear)... but to me that's just not ideal anyway. There should be a straight forward mage that can do great damage if managed strategically... with the whole glass-cannon risk factor, perhaps at the cost of most control spells... but there needs to be a way.

There is you need to set it up and know what you're doing.

The very high damage combined involve martials+spellcasters in collusion.

Even with optimal AoE spellcasters will burn through to many spells assuming another spellcaster has locked things down.

 

[Sorinth]

But there should be a way to build a mage... maybe sorcerer, that is all about blowing things up with massive damage. Fireball and other AoE spells have been nerfed every single version since 2e, and it shows. People were multi-classing fighter+sorcerer I hear to double cast fireball (nerfed in 5.5e I hear)... but to me that's just not ideal anyway. There should be a straight forward mage that can do great damage if managed strategically... with the whole glass-cannon risk factor, perhaps at the cost of most control spells... but there needs to be a way.

Does Warlock count? Because they are basically the magic equivalent to martial DPR classes.

 

[Zardnaar]

Does Warlock count? Because they are basically the magic equivalent to martial DPR classes.

They're kinda meh now and sorlock was nerfed.

 

[ECMO3]

This just more or less turns every monk weapon into finesse weapon, and with TWF you are NOT adding your ability mod to damage with off hand attack.

you have 5 attacks by then, stun is ONCE per turn, how many attacks do you need to land a single blow?

Right but you can use your nick attack to stun one enemy while you are using your other attacks on another enemy.

 

[mellored]

They're kinda meh now and sorlock was nerfed.

How so?
Quicken Eldritch Blast is still 2 SP, and you now get 50% more SP at level 5.

Can't use innate Sorcery but that's not new.

 

[Horwath]

Right but you can use your nick attack to stun one enemy while you are using your other attacks on another enemy.

sure, but really you are spending a feat that you can deal extra 4 damage at level 17.