-
The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
First Drow, now Kuo-toa. Darn you FR!!
- Thread starter Aeolius
- Start date
Wraithdrit
First Post
So rather than put any core monsters in FR material at all they are supposed to invent new monsters for FR material? Give me a break. What is next?
"Argh! Damn those WotC people? Did you see the latest FR supplement? It had material on Dwarves! My whole non-FR campaign is ruined! Now I have to reverse engineer the entire book! I'm so mad! Damn that FR! Damn Greenwood! Grar!"
I mean come on. Drow, Kuo-toa, Mind Flayers, etc, etc have a long history in the realms. Realms material on the Underdark are going to address them in an FR manner. If you want highly detailed ideas on them, then buy the book and use the material. Its not that hard.
"Argh! Damn those WotC people? Did you see the latest FR supplement? It had material on Dwarves! My whole non-FR campaign is ruined! Now I have to reverse engineer the entire book! I'm so mad! Damn that FR! Damn Greenwood! Grar!"
I mean come on. Drow, Kuo-toa, Mind Flayers, etc, etc have a long history in the realms. Realms material on the Underdark are going to address them in an FR manner. If you want highly detailed ideas on them, then buy the book and use the material. Its not that hard.
Last edited:
Aeolius
Adventurer
Wraithdrit said:
And a longer history in the World of Greyhawk.
Just once, I'd like to see a GH hardcover come out where FR fans say, "Well, it's for Greyhawk, but I guess I'll get it anyway".
And we GH fans are notoriously stubborn. The Races of Faerun book came out with lots of information about sea elves. While my campaign is set underwater, I didn't pick the book up. "Unapproachable East" has information on hagspawn. My campaign also has lots of hags but I didn't buy that one either. It's not worth the cost of either book, for the amount of information I would not be using.
WotC has made it clear that there will be no new GH supplements produced. I am sending WotC a message, by not purchasing any materials they produce for worlds other than GH.
Wraithdrit
First Post
You have the right to not purchase whatever you want. You also have the right to voice your opinion. The facts remain though that GH has long been the 'default' campaign setting that whomever owns the rights wants little to do with, while FR has been about churning out more and more information. If you want a blank slate with some decent material behind it, you run GH. If you want a world with lots of detail and many (some say too many) supplements with new material, then you run FR. I'm keeping my discussion outside of the OGL and d20 arena, I realize there are many options there.
Regardless, it just seems that every time an FR supplement comes out, the GH diehards jump up and down, wave their fists and gnash their teeth. Yes, we realize you are still upset. It just gets old.
Wizards has NO plans for ANY GH hardbacks. They have said that from the beginning of 3rd edition. Everything you see in the core books is GH, but they are not going to put anything out with a giant Greyhawk stamp on it.
At the same time there are things in the core books that we FR people have to convert as well. Manual of the Planes, Book of Vile Darkness, etc. These are GH/Core centric and have things that directly contradict FR lore and material. In fact I have not bought the Book of Vile Darkness yet for that very reason. Its not FR. Its GH.
Look at all the 'splat' books. They had all sorts of prestige classes that don't fit FR. They were GH centric. They just don't have the Greyhawk logo on it.
Regardless, it just seems that every time an FR supplement comes out, the GH diehards jump up and down, wave their fists and gnash their teeth. Yes, we realize you are still upset. It just gets old.
Wizards has NO plans for ANY GH hardbacks. They have said that from the beginning of 3rd edition. Everything you see in the core books is GH, but they are not going to put anything out with a giant Greyhawk stamp on it.
At the same time there are things in the core books that we FR people have to convert as well. Manual of the Planes, Book of Vile Darkness, etc. These are GH/Core centric and have things that directly contradict FR lore and material. In fact I have not bought the Book of Vile Darkness yet for that very reason. Its not FR. Its GH.
Look at all the 'splat' books. They had all sorts of prestige classes that don't fit FR. They were GH centric. They just don't have the Greyhawk logo on it.
Henry
Autoexreginated
Just a quick notice: Book of Vile Darkness is not Greyhawk-specific. It is neutral at best, or contains subtle references to Monte Cook's personal campaign material at worst.
I for one, sticking this in my pipe-dream stack of ideas, would LOVE to see a Grehawk book for 3E done in the tradition of the 2nd edition "Grehawk Adventures" book, which contained tons of info on Specialty Priests and their spells, magic items unique to Greyhawk, adventure location info, etc.
But I'll save that for when I personally buy out all stock in Hasbro, spin off WotC back as its own company, and offer Ryan Dancey a phenomenal independent stipend to resume Business Management...
I for one, sticking this in my pipe-dream stack of ideas, would LOVE to see a Grehawk book for 3E done in the tradition of the 2nd edition "Grehawk Adventures" book, which contained tons of info on Specialty Priests and their spells, magic items unique to Greyhawk, adventure location info, etc.
But I'll save that for when I personally buy out all stock in Hasbro, spin off WotC back as its own company, and offer Ryan Dancey a phenomenal independent stipend to resume Business Management...
Aeolius
Adventurer
It is also worth noting that the kuo-toa are not part of the OGL. They, along with yuan ti, mind flayers, and others are absent from the SRD. Therefore, all kuo-toan references must come from WotC. This has irked me for awhile, now, as this also means that third party publishers also cannot use kuo-toans in their supplements.
I suppose this finally occurred to WotC, who had already released a kuo-toan miniature in their new line of minis. So, they stuck a few of them in the upcoming FR supplement.
Yes, all the core books are set in the World of Greyhawk by default. Yes, there is an image of a kuo-toan in the revised DMG, and an entry in the MM. Yes, this means that kuo-toans have not been plucked from GH altogether.
We diehard fans of the World of Greyhawk ARE old. We have to gnash our teeth, while we still have them.
I suppose this finally occurred to WotC, who had already released a kuo-toan miniature in their new line of minis. So, they stuck a few of them in the upcoming FR supplement.
Yes, all the core books are set in the World of Greyhawk by default. Yes, there is an image of a kuo-toan in the revised DMG, and an entry in the MM. Yes, this means that kuo-toans have not been plucked from GH altogether.
Wraithdrit said:
We diehard fans of the World of Greyhawk ARE old. We have to gnash our teeth, while we still have them.
Wraithdrit
First Post
Cildarith,
I'm sure the FR authors would disagree.
Henry,
You are probably right. I just assumed it was more GH than anything else, as its Core, and the few pages I have skimmed about Orcus is obvious that it was not written with an 'open' idea, and more of a GH one. But like I said, I don't own it, so I don't know.
Main example I can think of off the top of my head from the splat books was the Fist of Hextor.
Aeolius,
Yes, its unfortunate that they chose to keep certain monsters for themselves. So they are choosing to expand on them in an FR material. Just means that we FR people will use them more. Exactly what effect does any of that have on GH?
WotC decided long ago not to do anything with GH. They decided to support FR and this new campaign world. There is nothing you can do but accept that, keep with the core books, and buy FR books if you want the supplemental material on whatever race they might have focused on in that book.
I buy almost all of the FR stuff because I am an FR fan. Have been since they first put out the gray box. Since I read Darkwalker on the Moonshaes (the most non-FR FR novel there is!). I have Unnapproachable East, and I would really like to incorporate it into my game, but it just doesn't fit. If someone wants to run a character from there, then maybe the book will get used. I have used a feat or two from it, and maybe one monster template.
So how is that different from you buying the book and using what you want in your GH campaign. Perhaps you don't have the expendable income to buy it. Fine. Don't.
I think I've beaten my point to death, so I'll let you get back to your gnashing of teeth.
I'm sure the FR authors would disagree.
Henry,
You are probably right. I just assumed it was more GH than anything else, as its Core, and the few pages I have skimmed about Orcus is obvious that it was not written with an 'open' idea, and more of a GH one. But like I said, I don't own it, so I don't know.
Main example I can think of off the top of my head from the splat books was the Fist of Hextor.
Aeolius,
Yes, its unfortunate that they chose to keep certain monsters for themselves. So they are choosing to expand on them in an FR material. Just means that we FR people will use them more. Exactly what effect does any of that have on GH?
WotC decided long ago not to do anything with GH. They decided to support FR and this new campaign world. There is nothing you can do but accept that, keep with the core books, and buy FR books if you want the supplemental material on whatever race they might have focused on in that book.
I buy almost all of the FR stuff because I am an FR fan. Have been since they first put out the gray box. Since I read Darkwalker on the Moonshaes (the most non-FR FR novel there is!). I have Unnapproachable East, and I would really like to incorporate it into my game, but it just doesn't fit. If someone wants to run a character from there, then maybe the book will get used. I have used a feat or two from it, and maybe one monster template.
So how is that different from you buying the book and using what you want in your GH campaign. Perhaps you don't have the expendable income to buy it. Fine. Don't.
I think I've beaten my point to death, so I'll let you get back to your gnashing of teeth.
Similar Threads
