Five Alignments?

[mach1.9pants]

I would have been happier with a 3 point G-U-E system (with PC's methods to achieving their ends being undefined by Law or Chaos) than this hybrid mess.

This.The alignment naming conventions in 4E just don't make sense to me. Chaotic

Chaos: noun. 1 the formless shape of matter that is alleged to have existed before the Universe was given order. 2 complete confusion or disorder. 3 physics <snip, does not apply>

So yes elemental chaos is fine but #2 shows that chaos as a name should not be used for something that is, for example, meticulous (i.e. Archons). CE is not a good alignment name for the description given (although I have only got it 2nd hand- unlike Morrus!), if they slaughtered the 9 grid cow, why didn't they slaughter the naming conventions or just have the three?

 

[hong]

This.The alignment naming conventions in 4E just don't make sense to me. Chaotic So yes elemental chaos is fine but #2 shows that chaos as a name should not be used for something that is, for example, meticulous (i.e. Archons). CE is not a good alignment name for the description given (although I have only got it 2nd hand- unlike Morrus!), if they slaughtered the 9 grid cow, why didn't they slaughter the naming conventions or just have the three?

Chaotic evil = cosmologically chaotic, not organisationally chaotic.

Think chaos space marines, not orks.

 

[mach1.9pants]

Chaotic evil = cosmologically chaotic, not organisationally chaotic.

Think chaos space marines, not orks.

Yeah saw it on the other thread, still means naff all to me

 

[Green Knight]

Yeah saw it on the other thread, still means naff all to me

They worship beings called 'Chaos Gods', they're called 'Chaos Space Marines', they live in a place called the Eye of Terror, in which the laws of physics are non-existent, many of them are horribly mutated by the warping energies of that place... and yet as a military force they're more disciplined than Imperial Storm Troopers (well, for the most part). They believe in 'Chaos', they live in a place which is pure chaos, but when it comes to fighting, they're one of the most efficient and disciplined forces in the galaxy.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Chaotic evil = cosmologically chaotic, not organisationally chaotic.

Think chaos space marines, not orks.

I'm not sure if that's such a good example, as 40k fluff is well known for being hilariously bad and so over the top in it's GRIMDARK that it makes you laugh. I'm not quite sure that's the direction Wizards wanted to take 4e

edit: Also, that outlook really hurts the previous argument of "4e totally doesn't claim chaos is evil!"

 

[mach1.9pants]

They worship beings called 'Chaos Gods', they're called 'Chaos Space Marines', they live in a place called the Eye of Terror, in which the laws of physics are non-existent, many of them are horribly mutated by the warping energies of that place... and yet as a military force they're more disciplined than Imperial Storm Troopers (well, for the most part). They believe in 'Chaos', they live in a place which is pure chaos, but when it comes to fighting, they're one of the most efficient and disciplined forces in the galaxy.

Thanks for explaining. Man, I LOL'd. About what I would expect from something with 'space' orcs, sorry orks.

 

[VannATLC]

I'm not sure if that's such a good example, as 40k fluff is well known for being hilariously bad and so over the top in it's GRIMDARK that it makes you laugh. I'm not quite sure that's the direction Wizards wanted to take 4e

edit: Also, that outlook really hurts the previous argument of "4e totally doesn't claim chaos is evil!"

Regardless of the quality of 40K fluff, it is still a perfect example.

Ummm.. I'm not sure where I've seen anywhere that it doesn't claim Chaos is, at least, mindlessly destructive. When you give it intellect, it can have morality. Then it becomes evil.

4e chaos, without exception so far, is not a political or moral statement. It is raw destruction.

 

[Hambot]

I'm not quite sure that's the direction Wizards wanted to take 4e

Designer 1:

"In the grim darkness of the past there was only dragons... who lived in dungeons... but who stole from non-dragons, so disregard the word "only" mentioned previously,

ah screw it start over."

Designer 2:

"You know what would make gnomes cool! They can turn invisible - that way we wont have to commission art for them, so people wont have big arguments about what they should all look like any more, and whether or not they feel like they fit in!"

Designer 1:

"I like it. Now where was I. In the grim darkness of the dungeon the only light is the end of a dragons mouth..."

Designer 2:

"what, like at the end of a tunnel?"

Designer 1:

"To hell with it. Lets just paint a picture of a dragon sitting in a dungeon with some treasure. It's worked before, it'll work again."

 

[VannATLC]

Thanks for explaining. Man, I LOL'd. About what I would expect from something with 'space' orcs, sorry orks.

You missed the bit where Orks are plants, as well as being genetically programmed with instinctive knowledge for war techology, and originally created to be warriors for a supreme master race.

The 40K fluff isn't, IMO, particular bad. A lot of the crap surrounding the Human empires is.. very forced, because it is very, very difficult to describe the Imperium as anything other than tyrannical, deeply evil, and, unfortunately, possibly correct in its actions. But that doesn't really sell product.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

You missed the bit where Orks are plants, as well as being genetically programmed with instinctive knowledge for war techology, and originally created to be warriors for a supreme master race.

The 40K fluff isn't, IMO, particular bad. A lot of the crap surrounding the Human empires is.. very forced, because it is very, very difficult to describe the Imperium as anything other than tyrannical, deeply evil, and, unfortunately, possibly correct in its actions. But that doesn't really sell product.

It's not that the fluff is bad bad, but it's B movie bad. It's awesomely bad. It's bad because it doesn't take itself seriously at all, and that's what makes 40k so much fun.

Except Eldar.

Screw Eldar.

On that note, could the Imperium be proof of Lawful Evil?*

*No, it's not, HERETIC. *BLAM*