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D&D 3E/3.5 Fix the Bard!- Bard 3.51 now online

This I like

the Jester said:
In my low-magic campaign I give bards bonus feats periodically, off a set list of bardic-music-related feats. It makes a huge difference, actually- especially when one of them increases the numerical bonuses granted by bard songs by +1.

This sounds like a great solution. Could you elaborate more? What levels do you give them extra feats? What is the feat list and where are they found?
 

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Firebeetle said:
This sounds like a great solution. Could you elaborate more? What levels do you give them extra feats? What is the feat list and where are they found?

Certainly!

the Year 271 Campaign Ruleset said:
Bard: A bard does not get spells. Instead, he gains a bonus feat at level 2, 4, 7, 10, 13 and 16. If the bard wishes, he may instead take a Wyrd. This feat may be chosen from the following list: Alertness, Animal Song**, Chant of Fortitude*, Encore**, Extra Music*, Force of Personality*, Green Ear*, Improved Initiative, Inspire Fear**, Ironskin Chant*, Jack Of All Trades*, Lasting Intimidation**, Lingering Song*, Linguist**, Masterful Performance**, Melody of the Free Mind**, Obscure Lore*, Powerful Voice**, Rally the Dying**, Rat-a-Tat**, Renowned Critic**, Sexy**, Skill Focus (bluff, diplomacy, listen, perform, sense motive), Soldiers’ March**, Song of the Masses**, Subsonics*, Tonguetwister**, True Tone**, Uncanny Dodge@, Virtuoso**, Versatile Performer*, Weapon Finesse.

*From Complete Adventurer. **From Cydra Player’s Guide. @As the rogue ability, requires Improved Initiative, base Ref save +4.

Cydra Players Guide said:
ANIMAL SONG (Bardic)
Animals love your music and will follow you around for it.
Prerequisite: Handle Animal skill, Bardic Music ability
Benefit: You can use your bardic music to enchant animals. Treat this as an charm animals spell, except that you are also empowered to communicate with the target animal on a basic level, i.e. you can tell it to come, stay, attack or similar commands.

ENCORE (General)
You are good at picking up a performance where you left off.
Prerequisites: Bardic music ability, Perform (6 ranks)
Benefit: When performing bardic music you can stop and then resume a performance within a number of rounds equal to your charisma bonus without it counting as a second use of your bardic music ability. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to your charisma bonus.

INSPIRE FEAR (Bardic)
Your bardic music can frighten and disturb.
Prerequisites: Cha 15+, Bardic Music ability, perform (7 ranks)
Benefit: As a form of bardic music you can inspire fear in all creatures within 5’ times your perform check. All creatures gain Will saves (DC13+ your Cha bonus) to negate the effect. Those failing are shaken and suffer a -2 morale penalty to attacks, saves and checks. Allies get a +2 circumstance bonus on this save and are totally unaffected if under the influence of your inspire confidence ability. Using this feat is a supernatural, mind-affecting fear ability.

LASTING INTIMIDATION [General]
Prerequisites: Cha 13+, Intimidate (4 ranks)
Benefit: Whenever you successfully intimidate someone, they will remember you. You may make one demand of the target's future behavior, such as not revealing that they saw you, not attempting to waylay travelers on the bridge anymore, etc. Before violating your demand for the first time, the victim of your intimidation must make a successful Will save, DC10 + your cha modifier. After they succeed for the first time, the force of your intimidation fades. The subject of your intimidation may attempt to violate your demand once per day, and for every week that passes without the victim seeing you they gain a +2 circumstance bonus on the saving throw. These bonuses stack, so the victim will eventually shake off your intimidation.

LINGUIST (General)
You have a natural talent for languages.
Benefit: Speak Language is a class skill for you. In addition, you learn one language for free upon taking this feat.

MASTERFUL PERFORMANCE (Bardic)
You can pour your heart and soul into a performance.
Prerequisites: Bardic Music ability, perform (4 ranks)
Benefit: You can use up one of your daily bardic music uses to gain a +4 bonus on a single perform check. You must declare you are using a masterful performance before you roll your perform check.

MELODY OF THE FREE MIND (Bardic)
Your bardic music can break enchantments.
Prerequisites: Bardic Music ability, perform (8 ranks)
Benefit: Any ally who hears you perform the Melody of the Free Mind is allowed a second saving throw against any enchantment she fails her save against on her next turn, just as a rogue with slippery mind would. While you could conceivably begin singing after someone has failed her first saving throw, you would have to start before a round passes and the opportunity for her to attempt a second once passes. Allies making a second saving throw get a morale bonus equal to ¼ your bard level. A rogue who has the slippery mind ability can make a total of three saves if she also hears the Melody of the Free Mind. You may maintain the melody for up to 10+ your cha bonus rounds. This is a mind-affecting sonic supernatural ability.

POWERFUL VOICE (General)
Your voice is powerful and carries much better than most.
Prerequisites: Cha 13+, Bardic Music ability, perform (6 ranks), True Tone
Benefit: Your bardic music works at double the normal range.

RALLY THE DYING [Bardic]
Prerequisites: Bardic music ability, Perform (6 ranks)
Benefit: You can stabilize the dying and stir them to consciousness. Thus, even at –9 hit points, an ally could act as though merely disabled (0 hit points). This effect works only once per ally, per song; in other words, if a rallied ally again falls unconscious, he cannot be rallied again unless the bard begins a new song. This counts as one use of bardic music for the day.

RAT-A-TAT [Bardic]
Prerequisites: Bardic music ability, Perform (10 ranks)
Benefit: A bard can direct a wave of concentrated harmonic vibrations toward one enemy in order to (a) cause his heavy metallic armor to vibrate wildly, giving him a –6 dexterity penalty (-3 AC), or (b) cause his metallic weapon to vibrate wildly so that his attacks are subject to a –2 penalty. This effect is subject to Dispel Magic, and lasts as long as the bard sings. The bard can shift the sonic wave toward a new opponent each round if she wishes. This ability is a supernatural sonic effect. This counts as three uses of bardic music for the day.

RENOWNED CRITIC [General]
Prerequisites: Cha 13+, Diplomacy (4 ranks)
Benefit: You may criticize the performances of another either at the time or after the fact. If you heckle a performer at the time of the performance, you may subtract your cha bonus from the perform check of the performer. If you criticize after the fact, all creatures that hear you do so are less impressed by later performances by the same performer, and the performer's perform checks are penalized by twice your cha bonus as regards those who heard you utter your criticism until the performer manages to roll a perform check that exceeds twice your charisma score (including the penalty) in their presence, thereby overcoming your scornful critique in their eyes.

SEXY (General)
You are attractive to those of similar race and (usually) opposite gender.
Prerequisites: Cha 13+
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on bluff, diplomacy and perform checks against members of your race and the appropriate sexual orientation. Against members of the appropriate sexual orientation of races with which you can interbreed you get a +1 bonus to bluff, diplomacy and perform checks.

SOLDIERS’ MARCH (Bardic)
Your music can inspire your allies and yourself to move further and faster on the road.
Prerequisites: Cha 13+, Bardic Music ability, perform (6 ranks)
Benefits: You can use your bardic music to encourage quick travel, allowing your group to hustle for up to your Cha bonus in hours per day. You can also give a +2 morale bonus to Con checks for forced marches. Soldiers’ March counts as one use of your bardic music ability for every two hours of use. This is a supernatural sonic mind-affecting ability.

SONG OF THE MASSES [Bardic]
Prerequisites: Bardic music ability, Perform (7 ranks)
Benefit: A bard can influence many people at once. He can change the attitudes of NPCs as per the DMG, but he replaces the Diplomacy check with his Perform check. He influences all people that can hear him. The Bard must perform for at least ten minutes to use this ability. This counts as one use of bardic music for the day.

TONGUETWISTER [Class feature, bard]
Prerequisites: Bardic music ability, Perform (11 ranks)
Benefit: A bard can use music or poetics loaded with alliteration and rhymes to confuse spellcasters in the act of recalling verbal components. The effect has a range of 30 ft. from the bard. The opposing spellcaster must make a concentration check against a DC of 15, plus the bard’s class level, plus the spell level. Initiating this song requires one use of bardic music for the day for the bard, and is almost always done as a readied action.

TRUE TONE (General)
Your voice is well-trained and you have perfect pitch.
Prerequisites: Cha 13+, Bardic Music ability, perform (4 ranks)
Benefit: Your voice is a masterwork instrument, giving you a +2 circumstance bonus on any perform checks with a vocal component. (This will not stack with the +2 circumstance bonus you receive for playing another masterwork instrument.)

VIRTUOSO (General)
You have a great talent for one specific type of performance.
Prerequisites: Perform skill
Benefit: You get a +4 competence bonus to a specific type of perform check.

I'm also working on more expanded bardic feats in a thread over here.
 

Jester.. I really like these additions, altho some of them {Rat-a-Tat, fx} seem a bit overpowered.

Any chance you could do a 'Jesters Bard House Rules' document? Heck.. enough polish and some page count on this and I would pay for it :)

FireBeetle.. the problem with threads names 'Fix the Bard' is that the base assumption of Bards being broke is based on something very touchy in most gaming groups... its the dreaded combination of player skill requirement and DM planning involvement. Regardless how talented the player is at creating and playing the Bard, a DM who fails to offer the opportunities causes the character to 'suck'. Regardless how much the DM caters to the class, a players unskilled handling causes the character to 'suck'.
When attempting to 'Fix the Bard', a folks who have seen a skilled player in a game that caters to the class will invariably wonder why as the Bard can be quite powerful as written.

I agree that more/cleaner mechanics can be used to better allow DM's to cater to the class, such as Jester's rules illustrate. Hence my perusal of threads like this.

IMHO, granting Versatile Performer to Bards for free is the right step to fixing the change of how Perform works.. and that is the limit of what I think needs tweaked in the core mechanics. Love to see additional feats/options to play with tho :)
 

why not make it so that, depending on their instrument of choice, you don't need somatic components for spells (if perform specialty is dance, then maybe no vocal components)
you need the spellcasting, or else they're kind of underpowered in that their only class ability is usable only once per day per class level.
 

I don't know that the lack of spells is really a huge hinderance to a bard. The spells are useful, but I don't think they make the character. I like the added feats.
 


Not to advertise another thread... but here goes anyway.

I've made a spell-free bard variant, which I've posted in this thread here:

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=157794

To help compensate for removing the bard's spells, I've greatly expanded the class's music abilities, without having to spend feats on it. Essentially I've made a 'spell list' of songs the bard can choose to learn. I've also reworked the basic bardic music rules, so that everything tends to get better at higher levels.

You might like the class as is, or you might simply let a standard bard use one of these new songs by spending a feat. I'll let you take a look.
 

We have the technology, gentlemen, we can rebuild him.

Primitive Screwhead said:
Jester.. I really like these additions, altho some of them {Rat-a-Tat, fx} seem a bit overpowered.
Why? You wouldn't even blink if a wizard or cleric of similar level did something like that. We have to get past the mindset that bards should be second-rate

Primitive Screwhead said:
Any chance you could do a 'Jesters Bard House Rules' document? Heck.. enough polish and some page count on this and I would pay for it :)
Good idea, I'm liking the spell-less bard with many bard feats idea. I think we have the basis of a variant class here that is much better.

Primitive Screwhead said:
FireBeetle.. the problem with threads names 'Fix the Bard' is that the base assumption of Bards being broke is based on something very touchy in most gaming groups... its the dreaded combination of player skill requirement and DM planning involvement. Regardless how talented the player is at creating and playing the Bard, a DM who fails to offer the opportunities causes the character to 'suck'. Regardless how much the DM caters to the class, a players unskilled handling causes the character to 'suck'.
When attempting to 'Fix the Bard', a folks who have seen a skilled player in a game that caters to the class will invariably wonder why as the Bard can be quite powerful as written.
Then why, my prehistoric twisted appendage, do you NEVER see monsters with extra levels of bard? Fighter, sure, sorcerer, of course, cleric, yeah, rogue, you bet, wizard, time to time, bard, are you kidding? Our goal needs to be this. . .

DM: There are 10 gnolls bearing down on you. . .
Player 1: nothing flurry of blows can't handle.
DM: with a skinny gnoll who is casting a spell.
Player 2: I can dispell that
DM: and a large gnoll who is dual-wielding swords
Player 3: I can take him.
DM: and a gnoll with a guitar
Players (all): Crap! How can we get out of here!

I think we should strip the bard class down to absolute basics and rebuild using the feat system. Here is my file on what's been mentioned on this thread so far.
 

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Firebeetle said:
Not bad, but it doesn't really increase the "bardness" of the bard.

But this can get you back to a debate about whether or not the bard is underpowered to begin with. After all, if bardness doesn't do you much good in your current campaign, then how will more bardness be of use?

You can easily houserules increases in power of the bard's current abilities. For example, Fascinate can last 2 rounds/level and the DC can be adjusted +1 for each bardic level. Inspire courage can change the bonus to +2, etc etc. But if you're trying to figure out how to make the bard more powerful in a featureless 30x30 dungeon room against an army of orcs, maybe more bardness isn't going to help.

Otherwise - maybe any bardic spell can be used as a counterspell vs. any spell with a V-component of equal level.
 

Honestly, since I am at work.. I skimmed Jester's feats.. hence 'appear overpowered'. Looking closer, given the time, may reveal different.

Side note, I have ran a Celtic inspired campaign were the leadership was generally either Druid or Bard... but I envision Gnolls with Drums, perhaps of human skin, rather than guitars.
When appropriate the the society, I have Bardic types quite often. But then again, I beleive they are one of the more entertaining clasess and still use a PrC similar to the 2nd ed version occasionally.
 

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