D&D 5E Fixing the Rogue with one Feat

[Umbran]

Thanks!

sickles -- because they are d4.

I am not sure that's a great reason for a farm implement that should hardly be a viable weapon at all to get the bonus. There aren't a lot of farm-themed rogues, are there?

 

[ECMO3]

Your description of a Rogue with a 16 dexterity and another ability indicates to me its LACK of flexibility. It's exactly this that I find weak in the rogue design. Given how few mudane options there are, I want the rogue to be more robust.

Among 5E classes Rogue is the most SAD class there is. I don't get what you are saying here or what you mean by Robust. If you are saying you want them to be more powerful in combat I get you, but that is more than balanced by their out of combat capabilities and a Rogue as powerful as a fighter should not have access to the other things they have.

To be clear you can do a lower dex Rogue and they do play well. You typically need a high strength and 12+ constitution if you want them to be as effective in combat though.

 

[Kobold Stew]

I am not sure that's a great reason for a farm implement that should hardly be a viable weapon at all to get the bonus. There aren't a lot of farm-themed rogues, are there?

ha ha ha.

Fair, but I've had more than one Rogues take folk hero backgrounds. As you know, though, the question is about mechanics.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Among 5E classes Rogue is the most SAD class there is. I don't get what you are saying here or what you mean by Robust. If you are saying you want them to be more powerful in combat I get you, but that is more than balanced by their out of combat capabilities and a Rogue as powerful as a fighter should not have access to the other things they have.

To be clear you can do a lower dex Rogue and they do play well. You typically need a high strength and 12+ constitution if you want them to be as effective in combat though.

I don't think we are disagreeing.

I'm not looking for them to be stronger in combat (I don't think the proposed feat gives them that, but I am asking if others do). And yes, it is viable to build a strength rogue, though I have not seen one with less than a 12 Dexterity.

The third benefit seeks to give alternatives, and I'm asking to see consequences of such a change, and proposing what I think is a significant cost to it.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

I love playing rouges, and my problems with the design of the rogue class focus around the limited choices of builds and basic combat options. I make no pretense that anyone other than myself sees these as issues needing a fix.

The changes that I would like are all (I believe) minor, and implementing them would make for a much wider range of rouge builds. They are things that a DM might allow in any case. But pooling them together in a feat demonstrates the importance I would place on them when designing a character. So here is a homebrew feat, which offers three benefits that would be of conceivable interest to rogues, spellcasters, monks, bards, and tavern brawlers.

The first benefit is different from the monk ability because it allows unarmed strikes to be used with Sneak Attack. For the second I’ve deliberately only chosen weapons that do d4 damage. For the third, Dexterity remains important for defense, but a greater range of options become possible for builds.

I’d welcome your thoughts and comments – what am I missing? is this too strong? Are there synergies that I’ve not thought of that make these overpowered? Do you have a better name for the combination of effects described?

Thanks!

I flat-out just removed the Finesse Weapon restriction on Sneak Attack completely.
I've yet to see a thematic or balance issue with it yet.

I chose not to charge a character resource for the ability because Dexterity is still such a powerful stat for any character. Allowing a rogue to invest in Str instead does not increase their power.

However I'm not a fan of just letting a character pick any ability score to base attacks off.

 

[Bolares]

What do you think about whips? I'm baffled rogues can't use whips for sneak attack.

 

[Umbran]

As you know, though, the question is about mechanics.

I do not hold to the idea that mechanics is strictly separate from narrative description.

 

[Kobold Stew]

However I'm not a fan of just letting a character pick any ability score to base attacks off.

I'm not either, which is why I'm suggesting a feat. This seems preferable to me than the free-rejigging of stat bonuses in TCoE (though I do understand what motivated that choice).

 

[TwoSix]

If anything, I'd say that seems like a very weak feat. It's basically a sidegrade--your power level stays the same, you just use different-looking gear--but you pay for this essentially cosmetic change with an entire feat slot.

If you were in my campaign, I'd give you most of this stuff for free, or at most a token payment. Maybe swap it in for your background feature? Certainly not a feat. I'd have to think about the stat swap, but the rest is trivial.

Agreed. Make it a half-feat (+1 to a stat), and allow the stat swap to apply to any finesse weapon, and I'd put it in the "good feat category". Right now, this is purely a reskin that happens to cost a feat.

 

[NotAYakk]

Instead of attribute substitution for another, what if we look into "presumed accuracy" techniques and allow them via a feat.

Combat Drill
You have practiced and drilled at combat, giving you a +1 bonus to constitution. When making an attack roll where you add your proficiency bonus, you gain the following benefits:

• You may replace both your proficiency and attribute bonus to hit on the roll with twice your proficiency bonus.
• If you have advantage and your attack hits, if both dice rolled the same value, your attack becomes a critical hit.
• Whenever you roll a natural 1 on any attack roll, you can reroll it, but must keep the result of the reroll.

This intentionally does not replace attribute bonus to damage.

At level 17+, it gives you a +12 instead of the "baseline max stat" +11 to hit. The "reroll 1s once" is similar to rolling in the range 2-20 instead of 1-20, which acts a bit like a +1/2 to hit (average of your d20s is a smidgen under 11 not 10.5), and also almost (but not completely) avoids auto-miss.

The "doubles are crits with advantage" is fun. It acts as less than a full point of extra critical range, and only when you have advantage. If you crit on a 20 and hit on a 10+, your crit chance before this feat was almost 10%; afterwards, it is 12.5%. A fun, if marginal, benefit.

The meat is being able to attack without having to boost your attack attribute. So you can make a int-based rogue. You aren't as good for most purposes as someone who does boost their attack attribute (because you miss attribute to damage), but you are serviceable.

This still leaves said rogue with low AC. They could take moderately armored, and with 14 Dex and a shield have decent AC, but that is yet another feat tax.