Flame Arrow & Telekinesis Issues: Discuss

[Primitive Screwhead]

Thrown Ax

Correct, an Ax needs to strike on a given plane as well, and the arm/wrist motion imparts correct angle of attack. TK's violent thrust, IMHO, does not impart the angle of attack. It would be like holding the Ax head and trying to chop with it instead of gripping the handle properly.

JMHO

 

[Droid101]

Correct, an Ax needs to strike on a given plane as well, and the arm/wrist motion imparts correct angle of attack. TK's violent thrust, IMHO, does not impart the angle of attack. It would be like holding the Ax head and trying to chop with it instead of gripping the handle properly.

JMHO

Well, I don't know which way the argument would go. IMC, I'd say you get the bonuses of the weapon when using the violent thrust. For the same reason that I'd allow the bonuses to attack if you threw your scimitar at some dude across the room. I see this maneuver pulled all the time in movies. And what is D&D, but cinematic, at times? I personally don't like finding loopholes and logical statements to hinder my players. My players are mature enough to use things logically and not abuse the system. But eh, to each his own.

 

[Scion]

Since the arrows would be doing d4 I would say they are doing d4 peircing damage, and therefore must be in the proper line of attack. Just like when you throw any object it isnt spinning wilding out of control, the person is controlling it with the spell. So they have a certain amount of control over its orientation.. plus, arrows naturally want to be in the path of least resistance, which is their normal firing direction anyway.

If you call it an attack and make the ammunition be used up (I see no reason why it wouldnt be used up) then basically you are useing a 5th level spell to throw a bunch of arrows for a few points of damage and use your casting stat instead of dex. Adding on the extra spell simply tacks on some extra damage that almost makes it worthwhile sometimes.

Seems fine really.

 

[Plane Sailing]

After all, he could be violently thrusting 10 greatswords laid out on his artilliary support platform!

 

[strongbow]

Quote: After all, he could be violently thrusting 10 greatswords laid out on his artilliary support platform!(Artillery Platform Read: Tenser's Floating Disk, lol)

Orcish Shotputs are supposed to be really good as well. It's so sad that you can use orcish shotputs in this manner. They are ammunition for spell purposes. If anything, using arrows is relatively uncheesy.

For Primitive Screwhead's benefit, I have removed the offending sigh. Btw, it is very hard to take someone seriously when their name is Primitive Screwhead.

 

[strongbow]

<casts Bump>

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Naming ..

Ya, I started on a CP2020 board and the name fit.. since I have been using it on various boards over the last 4 years, I did not want to do the 'Justin Cooper, formerly known as Primitive Screwhead" thing

As to the topic at hand, I had no further to contribute, altho I will keep my eye on the thread. :\

 

[babomb]

TK from the SRD is below. Note that arrows cause damage as daggers of their size, which will be 1d4 for your medium size characters. The spell specifically mentions that you can use arrows with it. Now I ask you if you cast Flame Arrow on some sling stones and used them, you would get the bonus damage. Just b/c the arrows are not fired from a bow doesn't mean that you don't get the damage. Surely you would concede that using TK to propel sling stones is very much like using a sling? The argument that you don't get bonuses b/c the objects are not fired in "their intended manner" is not a good one.

The argument for arrows not used "in their intended manner" refers to +2 arrows, not those under the effects of Flame Arrow.

Second, the spell says it provides extra damage, not bonus damage. Extra damage stacks, for example, when you have a bow with flaming and shock. Bonus damage is different.

Nope, they're the same.

A +1 bonus to hit is very different from +1 to hit.

Also the same (but they would both stack since they're both unnamed bonuses).

Fourth, I reference DMG p 221 which states "Weapons come in two basic categories: melee and ranged. Some of the weapons listed as melee weapons (for example, daggers) can also be used as ranged weapons. In this case, their enhancement bonus applies to either type of attack." If I stab someone with a +2 arrow, I get +2 to hit and +2 to damage.

Notice it only says "ome". You might also notice that daggers have a range increment. They are designed to be usable as thrown weapons, as are, e.g., spears and throwing axes. Therefore, I submit that the intention is that this rule only applies to melee weapons with listed range increments. A holy avenger flies about as well as a nonmagical longsword (but the holy avenger still does 2d6 extra damage to evil creatures). Further, the rule specifically mentions melee weapons that can be used as ranged weapons, and therefore, I submit that the intention is that the reverse is not true. A +2 arrow used as a melee weapon is no better than a normal arrow. A +1 flaming arrow used as a melee weapon, however, still does 1d6 extra damage, assuming that its flaming power has been activated.

That said, the RAW do not explicitly state that the bonuses do not apply when using Telekinesis. However, a DM would be well within his rights to rule that the bonus does not apply, particularly given the precedent in the above rule.