Flame Blade abuse/legality?

[James McMurray]

For this particular situation it doesn't matter, since its been found that Divine Favor doesn't add to the Scimitar's damage.

 

[Gwarthkam]

I was thinking of the attack roll, not the damage

 

[Garmorn]

I would guess that the fighters have a lot of extra options they can be using at the same time though? If they are about the same level they should have feats coming out of their ears (figuratively). If the party end up fighting giants then spring attacking with a single 2H weapon is *much* better than attempting to going toe-to-toe, and the cleric will get battered if he attempts to swap full attacks with a giant or dragon of appropriate CR. He'll also be looking pretty silly if the party come up against anything with a fire subtype (not that it should happen on a regular basis, but it's fine to happen every so often), just like he'll be an obvious dispel magic target when you come across a party who can use it.

Cheers

If all else fails the fighter could get a Brillant Energy weapon. They use touch attacks also

 

[James McMurray]

Duh. Of course you were. I'm such an idiot.

Sorry I can't enlighten you as to whether they changed it or not. I almost have to assume they did though, since they reined in almost every other easily abused spell.

 

[Staffan]

Staffan:

Thanks for replying. If the purpose of:

"you wield this bladelike beam as if it were a scimitar"

didn't apply to weapon focus [scimitar], improved critical [scimitar] etc. and the only point of comparing it with a scimitar was a proficiency issue then why not just treat it as a simple touch attack, given that it's a Druid spell and Druids are proficient with Scimitars per default?

What I mean is that it's treated as a scimitar for the purpose of feats/proficiency (including Weapon Focus, Specialization, and Improved Critical), but it still has the generic spell crit of 20/x2. If you also have Improved Crit (scimitar), you'd get 19-20/x2 instead.

As for the proficiency issue - sure, it's irrelevant for druids, but who says it won't end up on some other class's spell list (I don't have OA here to check, but it might very well be on the Shugenja's spell list and I don't think they get proficiency)? And even within the core rules, there's the issue of rogues/bards using scrolls or wands of flame blade.

Originally posted by Garmorn
If all else fails the fighter could get a Brillant Energy weapon. They use touch attacks also

No, they don't. They ignore regular armor, but not natural armor - and for most high-level monsters, natural armor is the big portion of their AC.

 

[melkoriii]

Personaly I would not allow this as a DM.

It maybe only a 2nd lvl spell that you added to his list but it is VARY over powered in a clerics hands.


Since he does have it though.
It would be in his best interest to cast the spell on the Ranger and Fighter in the party Since the spell is range Touch he can let the real fighters have some of that action.

 

[Destil]

The only thing I can think of is if he has the 13 Str he should be power-attacking (unless you use the revised power attack). It's like an unlimited deep-impact/unavoidable strike [psionic] which people often power attack the nine hells out of.

But given the levels involved (quickened divine favor? Multi-empowered flame blades?) this all sounds not only reasonable, but fun!

 

[Gwarthkam]

Destil:

We havn't played Flame Blade as ellegible for Power Attack, given that it's a spell, touch attack and no str. bonus etc. would you allow it to be influenced by PA?

Yes, it is fun using it (or so it seems)

 

[Staffan]

Destil:

We havn't played Flame Blade as ellegible for Power Attack, given that it's a spell, touch attack and no str. bonus etc. would you allow it to be influenced by PA?

Yes, it is fun using it (or so it seems)

I'm not Destil, but I don't think I would allow it. If your Strength bonus won't help with it, you shouldn't be able to Power Attack either.

 

[green slime]

Looking at the information at hand, we have

14th level Cleric
BAB +10/+5 (Fighter BAB +14/+9/+4)

Divine Power (18 Str, fighter BAB) (4th) (14 rounds)
Divine Favor (+4 luck bonus to attack in this bonus) (1st) (1 minute)
two empowered empowered flame blades (6th) (14 minutes)

Feats
1st level? Ambidexterity (Dex 15)
Human: Two-Weapon Fighting (No prereqs)
3rd level: Weapon focus [scimitar] (BAB +1)
6th level: Empower Spell (No prereqs)
9th level: ?? (BAB is at +6...)
12th level: Improved Two-weapon Fighting (BAB +9)

Left Hanging around like a sad wet dog we have ...
improved critical [scimitar] (BAB +8)

Assuming a 26 Wisdom (18 start +3 levels, +4 item, +1 inherent)
Casts
6 0-level
7+d 1st-level
7+d 2nd-level
6+d 3rd-level
6+d 4th-level
4+d 5th-level
4+d 6th-level
3+d 7th-level
Spells.

Conclusions:
(Completely ignoring 3.5 changes, which I have yet to see.)

He can only do the empowered empowered flameblade trick twice per day, if he wants to use his two-weapon fighting. This leaves no other slots for spells like heal.

He cannot have both Improved Critical and Improved Two Weapon Fighting as a 14th level cleric. This character was created at 13th or 14th level. Or this would have been seen during character advancement.

He is reduced to casting divine power and divine favour, as well as the flame blades. Every combat, as he lacks persitent spell. This reduces the number of rounds he is available for combat. Every round he spends boosting is one where the fighters up front get beat up on. This requires at least 2 rounds, and so is not trivial.

So yeah, I'd allow empowered empowered flameblades

It burns up a lot of spell slots to get this effective. Spell slots and rounds.

2d8 + 7 (the bonus damage isn't part of the variable, ), attacking with a melee touch attack, crit range 20/x2 (he doesn't have Imp Crit yet...), 5 attacks; +20 (+14 Ftr BAB, +4 Str, +4 luck, -2 2-wpn)/+20 / +15 / +15 / +10

Obvious counters:
Fire creatures
Incorporeal creatures (50% miss chance)
Protection from Fire
Dispel Magic
Blink
Sneak Attack
Ranged Attacks (readied?)

Varying encounters so it is less predictable as to what will be efficient. Can cramp the style of the party if they can't go ethereal, can't heal, can't Air Walk.

It does look fun when it occurs, but is it really so often the other players feel sidelined?