Flanking with a ranged weapon?

[The Levitator]

We use the facing variant in UA, which is easier for our group to understand. We did have a make a small change in it to avoid leapfrogging. But in regards to flanking; I have a player running a ranger with Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot, and I allow him to flank with his bow. He took 2 feats to get the ability to flank with his bow, and our game hasn't exploded as a result. It doesn't come up that often, and we only allow it under pretty specific circumstances. Maybe conditions like this could work with the Core rules? We really prefer the facing variant to the Core rules. But then, I have a couple of old schoolers who also have a wargaming background, so it just "feels" better to them I think.

 

[Milagroso]

From what I gathered from the rules, if Character A (a rogue) is attacking The Opponent with a melee weapon while Character B (also a rogue) is behind him, then Character A gets a flanking bonus and Character B gets Sneak Attack die. I would imagine if Character B is behind The Opponent, albeit 30ft back, although he does not get a flanking bonus he should still receive Sneak Attack bonus die and Character A should still get a flanking bonus.

This makes life extremely difficult for The Opponent.

Actually, now that we bring it up, if Character A and B are attacking with melee and are on opposite sides of the character do they both get flanking bonus? I imagine so.

If they are both flanking, would they both get sneak attack die?

What if they were both using ranged weapons and were exactly 30 feet from The Opponent?

 

[RigaMortus2]

makes flanking very simple:

1) does the 'friendly character/creature' threaten the opponent, aka can he make a melee attack against the opponent? If not, no flanking, if so --> 2
2) is the 'friendly character/creature' on the opposing border (when in doubt, draw a line)? If not, no flanking, if so.... flanking bonus!!!

Both of these can be satisfied in my original example using the bow user. Hence my question...

My ally is threatening our opponent and can make a melee attack against them. That satisfies 1.

Trace an imaginary line between the two friendly characters’ centers. If the line passes through opposite borders of the opponent’s space (including corners of those borders), then the opponent is flanked. This is also satisfied if I am directly opposite the opponent. No matter if I am 5, 10, 30 or 100 feet away. You will be able to draw a line from my ally's center to my center and pass through both borders of the opponent.

 

[The Levitator]

Both of these can be satisfied in my original example using the bow user. Hence my question...

My ally is threatening our opponent and can make a melee attack against them. That satisfies 1.

Trace an imaginary line between the two friendly characters’ centers. If the line passes through opposite borders of the opponent’s space (including corners of those borders), then the opponent is flanked. This is also satisfied if I am directly opposite the opponent. No matter if I am 5, 10, 30 or 100 feet away. You will be able to draw a line from my ally's center to my center and pass through both borders of the opponent.

That sounds spot on to me. My question about RAW though is, wouldn't the opponent need to be aware of the 2nd combatant in order to be flanked by the 1st combatant? If flanking is meant to simulate the idea that an opponent is having to split his attention between two combatants, thus making him easier to hit; if combatant B pops out from behind a tree from 30' away and the opponent doesn't know he's there, would combatant A still get flanking? The way we do it now is allow the opponent a Spot check to notice combatant B. We always kinda struggled with that when we played RAW.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

That sounds spot on to me. My question about RAW though is, wouldn't the opponent need to be aware of the 2nd combatant in order to be flanked by the 1st combatant?

Nope; nothing in the rules states that you have to be aware of the opponents in order to be flanked.

 

[The Levitator]

Nope; nothing in the rules states that you have to be aware of the opponents in order to be flanked.

That's what we thought. I think that was one of the things my group found kinda wonky and may have contributed to their decision to try the facing variant. Thanks for the super fast reply!

 

[Voadam]

PH II has a special ranger variant. They give up animal companion and at 4th level an opponent they hit with missile fire is considered flanked for 1 round for all those in melee combat.

I like this variant a lot.

 

[The Levitator]

That IS cool!

 

[RigaMortus2]

PH II has a special ranger variant. They give up animal companion and at 4th level an opponent they hit with missile fire is considered flanked for 1 round for all those in melee combat.

I like this variant a lot.

Yes, my Scout/Ranger uses this variant (along with the cheesey Improved Skirmish from CSc). Of course, we don't have any Rogues to capitalize on this, but +2 to hit is +2 to hit...

 

[Hypersmurf]

Both of these can be satisfied in my original example using the bow user. Hence my question...

Do you feel that, in the corridor example - where your ally is fifty feet from the opponent, but lined up nicely - you can gain your sneak attack damage?

If not, what is your reasoning... and why would that same reasoning not preclude gaining your sneak attack damage with the bow when your ally does threaten the opponent?

-Hyp.